Hustle count

#41
wooh said:
ETA: And how are y'all getting 1,2, or 3 on an upbeat? They're downbeats. Or am I reading wrong?
In the swing world, it is common to refer to the odd counts of a 4/4 measure as the down beats, and the even counts as the upbeats. I won't try to defend that usage as correct without first checking with my musical guru, but I do run into it a lot.

As for the other, and assuming my previous analysis is at all relevant, the names don't matter: so long as your feet are moving in a continuous loop of Walk ball Change Walk, it absolutely doesn't matter if you say to yourself "1 &2 3" or "3 &1 2" or "2 &3 1". The counts are still falling on the attack of the beat, so they are all going to be on time.

What matters, though not enough to worry over, is that the flourishes match with the music, which means arranging that the part of the pattern where the flourish happens hits an odd count in the music.
 

DWise1

Well-Known Member
#42
Dancelf said:
In the swing world, it is common to refer to the odd counts of a 4/4 measure as the down beats, and the even counts as the upbeats. I won't try to defend that usage as correct without first checking with my musical guru, but I do run into it a lot.
In beginning music theory classes, 2/4 rhythm is described as alternating strong and weak beats -- strong-weak, strong-weak -- so that the down-beat would be stronger than the up-beat (I'm pretty sure, except I'm less conversant in using the terms down-beat and up-beat).
2/4: 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2
(italics indicating "strong")

4/4 takes that a bit further as the first strong is stronger than the second strong:
4/4: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
(bold indicating "even stronger")

So when you hear a pair of beats, you should be able to hear that one is stronger than the other.

And for completeness, 3/4 rhythm is strong-weak-weak:
3/4: 1 2 3 4 5 6
(in waltz, the count must come in pairs in order to bring you back to the correct foot free)

wooh said:
So my question is, if you want to dance to one, and your partner is dancing to the other, as long as you both keep your mouths shut and don't do it out loud, why can't you?
In terms of being able to dance with each other, it doesn't make any difference. Same as with ECS with some (Lindy school) starting with the rock-step and others (ballroomies, mainly) starting with the triples and ending with the rock-step.

But in terms of dancing to the music, that is where it makes a difference. Some are more sensitive to this than others.

Along those same lines, the question came up as we were leaving the Fair, which is if so many dances are based on 4/4, why is it that some songs are better for certain dances and not for others? Such that some songs just scream out "Night club 2 step" while others scream out "Country Two Step" and others scream out "Let's Lindy!!"? Again, it's a matter of musicality. Though the details of why this is would require a musician to explain.
 

wooh

Well-Known Member
#44
In the swing world, it is common to refer to the odd counts of a 4/4 measure as the down beats, and the even counts as the upbeats.
Well that would be my problem. Coming from a music background, numbers are downbeats, &'s are upbeats.

But in terms of dancing to the music, that is where it makes a difference. Some are more sensitive to this than others.
I guess for me having the 3 beats rotating through the 4 beat music, it doesn't seem to matter what dance count I'm on, since I'm just counting to keep my feet moving in time, the musicality just happens on top of it. But I'm also not leading, maybe it would make more difference to me if I was having to think more?
 

Vince A

Active Member
#45
Some helpful tidbits:
4/4 time - 4 quarter notes to a measure of music

a Count - The count just before the beat

and Count - The count just before the a count

Count - Includes the & and a before the beats

Beat - 1 quarter note of 4/4 time

Downbeat - The 1st beat of a unit –1st & 3rd beat of a 4/4 measure

Pattern Count - The number of beats of music in a specific pattern

Phrase - Several sets of 8 that form a complete section of music
Rhythms - Single, Double, Triple, Blank & Delayed Single are Primary
All Rhythms in 4/4 time are confined to 2 beats of music

Single Rhythm - One step only on the Downbeat

Syncopated Rhythm - A Rhythm that steps on the & or that counts in 2
beats

Sycopation - Rearranging the weight changes, stepping on the & or a counts

Time Placement - Where the Dancer places his/her steps in a Rhythm
count “&a1-&a2

Timing - Ability of a dancer to transfer to CPB on the beat of the music

Unit - Smallest increment of Dance. 2 beats of music in 4/4 time

Upbeat - In 4/4 time = 2nd beat in a Unit –2nd & 4th beat of a measure
 

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