I have some problems as a beginner

sixela

Well-Known Member
#41
Should I try to invite a local advanced female dancer or pay and dance with his partner?
The latter. At least there will be, as they say in legal terms, "consideration" for her. But pay her well.

But why do you state that as a mutually exclusive choice? Both should allow you to dance (unless, of course,...)
 
#42
1) A beginner is interested in dancing with you. You refuse to dance with her because she doesn't know "what she is doing on the floor."
2) Other guys like me dance with her. She improves.
3) Now she must be interested in dancing with you. But why?

From my personal experience:
1) I was interested in dancing with some very good ladies.
2) They refused or showed indifference.
3) Now I don't see them as desirable partners. There are other ladies who don't mind dancing with me.
4) Now I see professional dancers as very desirable partners and I can get them by paying some money. They can give useful advice.
I never refuse to dance with a lady. I just do not approach those that do not seem to be able to follow reasonably well.

I also didn't say I would not dance with a pretty beginner - I just stated that I would rather dance with an older lady and a good follower than a pretty young lady beginner.

I actually like helping beginners at a practica, not a Milonga. At a Milonga I am to dance, the better the follower the merrier...

As far as your "personal experience", I am with you on points 1, 2, and 3.
 
#43
My bad. Somehow I had the mistaken understanding that this was the tango forum, didn't realize it's the ballet forum.
When I encounter a lady who follows very gracefully, I ask her if she has taken ballet classes.
"Not much, for just a couple years."

You can dance with anybody, but those who exercise and take ballet classes are better followers.
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#44
Nekolilith, you may have picked the most unfavourable dance. Not speaking for all the leaders but in my case, I find it hard to lead significantly shorter followers. While when dancing things like jive or cha-cha, size never mattered to me.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#45
When I encounter a lady who follows very gracefully, I ask her if she has taken ballet classes.
"Not much, for just a couple years."

You can dance with anybody, but those who exercise and take ballet classes are better followers.
That is your experience.

Mine is that former professional balerina was looking for spot dancing and did elements (figures) and later go on.
Every time she make a short pause before executing figures.
After a long time she learned how to move through the space.
 
#46
Mine is that former professional balerina was looking for spot dancing and did elements (figures) and later go on.
Every time she make a short pause before executing figures.
After a long time she learned how to move through the space.
Did she try to embellish and wait for a beat and you pushed her to move? Women like pauses.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#47
Mhhh -- women like breathing room in which they can participate in the dance _throughout_ the dance. My experience is that they really don't like "pauses" in which nothing happens (a sort of "here, now do your thing while I stand here waiting").
 
#50
Here is a typical milonga.
Dancers run around and the music plays on its own.


Here is a different couple. He takes pauses and follows the music precisely.
I'm sure ALL ballerinas want him, not anybody from the first video.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#53
Here is a typical milonga.
Dancers run around and the music plays on its own.


Here is a different couple. He takes pauses and follows the music precisely.
I'm sure ALL ballerinas want him, not anybody from the first video.
I'd say the dancer is more skilled. Is your point that some women would prefer to dance with the more skilled dancers?
 
#54
I'd say the dancer is more skilled. Is your point that some women would prefer to dance with the more skilled dancers?
I would say that not a single woman wants to dance with a guy who doesn't understand music. It's the top priority.

The dancer in the video doesn't use any complicated steps that he certainly knows. But he is so graceful.
 
#55
"Understanding the music" is a continuum. It is not like here one does not understand music, and at the next point he suddenly does. There are very few people who are intrinsically "unmusical". Having a sense of rhythm and harmony is a common human characteristic. And the woman's part plays a huge, at times crucial, role in couple's musicality. As long as, looking at a man dancing with others, I see that he has ears and tries to listen and consider music, I know we will do at least a decent job dancing to the music I know and like.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#56
My experience is that women do not all want the same thing.
My sample is, of course, self-selecting (no doubt I attract a certain _kind_ of follower, and I have even been accused of "ruining followers for everyone else" at times).

Perhaps more than yours, but one is who one is.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#57
Here is a typical milonga.
Vincenze, you do realise that in this country, taking a video and disparaging strangers who are not public figures without asking for their consent to be shown is actually illegal?

And no, I don't think the better dancer just does "pauses" (in the way that your original sentence made them appear to be). A lot of things are happening in these pauses. I'll agree they're pauses if you let me call them "pregnant pauses".
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#58
But he is so graceful.
Which is a separate aspect from how musical he is. I know a lot of people who are very musical but not very graceful. I also know very graceful movers who I can't see as connected to the music at all (they give me the impression of having had concrete cast in their ears). I actually prefer to look at the former, grace be damned. At least they're dancing.

Of course in your example (it's not the first time you posted a picture of him) he is both musical and graceful.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#59
And the woman's part plays a huge, at times crucial, role in couple's musicality.
I'm not sure that Vincenze has grokked this yet. There was not a word for the partner of that man he put on a pedestal in his comments, and she certainly knows the music as well.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#60
I would say that not a single woman wants to dance with a guy who doesn't understand music. It's the top priority.
If the follower doesn't understand the music, it's not such a priority. Some followers really do want to dance with people who do flashy moves, while others are more into the embrace aspect of the dance. Also there's the issue of partners who understand the music, but it inspires them in different ways, (or they interpret it differently).

The dancer in the video doesn't use any complicated steps that he certainly knows. But he is so graceful.
What the couple is doing in the second video is more difficult than what's going on in the first video. They are more skilled.

It can be said that there are two ways to achieve greatness. One way is to be able to do difficult steps and make them look easy. Another is to do basic steps and make them look special. To move like that takes time and experience.
 

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