Is Salsa becoming a Stag Dance?

#61
africana said:
well said 8)
I do enjoy the challenge of doing my best to follow any type of lead, so I keeping working on my technique, improving consistency and control, but sometimes that is just not the primary focus :?
I agree it's usually best to "play" with partners I already know can handle it.
I've had a few dances, salsa, ballroom or swing, I'm not sure, where I was almost ignored. A very bizarre feeling. Not knowing what else to do, and not sure if my lead is bad (on salsa or lindy) I do basic steps, best technique I can, and let the follower adjust or not. I don't know if this is what you're talking about, africana. No judgement. Just asking.
 
#62
Vin said:
Personally I would rather have a woman seek me out to dance with because she enjoys the feeling of dancing with me rather than because she is impressed by the way I dance. But others don't always feel the same.
Agreed. I'm really working on this now. Which is really just to say that I'm learning to express to my lady that I'm enjoying her and enjoying dancing with her. This was probably what made the difference Tuesday night.
 
#64
yes that whole bit about "can handle it" is simply to say that freedom is not a concept for everyone, or every level

There are those leads who know how to improvise to the music, they are skilled enough to listen to the follow same as the follow listens to the lead. They flow together, give and take. And who's to say that lead/follow may not even shift roles during the dance

You have to see it to understand. It looks great, it feels great 8)
 
#65
tacad said:
africana said:
mayanempire said:
..among them is that he is eye-catching when he's on the floor, in the way that he interprets the music. Partner connection may not always appear to be his strong suit, but I know from my own experience (and from that of other follows) that he IS capable of establishing and maintaining it. One of his perceived weaknesses, then, is that he doesn't seem to always want to.... get totally lost in the music...
very eeery these words are exactly are how many in my scene describe me :oops: :p :twisted: (judge not lest ye be judged huh?)
I actually really enjoy watching this guy's style, but the trick to following him is first establish good connection, and second yield to him without getting intimidated. Otherwise it feels rough

I remember one dance lastnight when I purposely opted in favor of musicality and being carried away by the music rather than follow a formulaic lead, the man was not happy :twisted: :lol: and it was all my fault 8)
The song was just packed full of breaks, drum solos, very powerful, definitely not the time for silly little patterns. I was going to grab another guy who could keep up when he asked, eh too bad, I was feeling it

It's always funny the look on their faces when they see me cooperating and being good with other smoother guys during "regular" songs i.e. not packed full with shine-able rhythms ;)

what can I say? I'm not a robot
To paraphrase Chris Stratton (although he certainly was not talking about salsa), leading involves a certain amount of following.
And to paraphrase myself, dancing is not all about lead and follow (thank goodness!) that's where the expression comes in
It's about the music, not some silly concocted steps every says should make up the dance. It's about 3-way communication: you-partner-music
Sometimes one person in the conversation speaks louder than the others, or has higher priority
It's not all about the man, sorry
 
#66
africana said:
yes that whole bit about "can handle it" is simply to say that freedom is not a concept for everyone, or every level

There are those leads who know how to improvise to the music, they are skilled enough to listen to the follow same as the follow listens to the lead. They flow together, give and take. And who's to say that lead/follow may not even shift roles during the dance

You have to see it to understand. It looks great, it feels great 8)
I've done that with one follower who has a west coast swing background. I don't do WCS but we throw in some ECS, a little lindy, and some general stuff. We play off each other. It is great fun!
 
#67
tacad said:
africana said:
well said 8)
I do enjoy the challenge of doing my best to follow any type of lead, so I keeping working on my technique, improving consistency and control, but sometimes that is just not the primary focus :?
I agree it's usually best to "play" with partners I already know can handle it.
I've had a few dances, salsa, ballroom or swing, I'm not sure, where I was almost ignored. A very bizarre feeling. Not knowing what else to do, and not sure if my lead is bad (on salsa or lindy) I do basic steps, best technique I can, and let the follower adjust or not. I don't know if this is what you're talking about, africana. No judgement. Just asking.
hmm, I'll have to see to judge but I don't think so.

Playing involves interaction with partner as well as music
 
#68
africana said:
And to paraphrase myself, dancing is not all about lead and follow (thank goodness!) that's where the expression comes in
It's about the music, not some silly concocted steps every says should make up the dance. It's about 3-way communication: you-partner-music
Sometimes one person in the conversation speaks louder than the others, or has higher priority
It's not all about the man, sorry
Thank God! I didn't go to dance by myself with a sexy prop. I'm totally with you on that you-partner-music.

Hmm. Just in case I wasn't clear with my paraphrase of Chris Stratton: I meant that a leader also has to be able to follow as well. I lead, and then go where she goes in ballroom, more or less. I assume the leader has to be even more ready to follow in salsa or west coast swing. I know the leader has to be very responsive in lindy. Anyway, that's what I meant.
 
#69
tacad said:
africana said:
And to paraphrase myself, dancing is not all about lead and follow (thank goodness!) that's where the expression comes in
It's about the music, not some silly concocted steps every says should make up the dance. It's about 3-way communication: you-partner-music
Sometimes one person in the conversation speaks louder than the others, or has higher priority
It's not all about the man, sorry
Thank God! I didn't go to dance by myself with a sexy prop. I'm totally with you on that you-partner-music.

Hmm. Just in case I wasn't clear with my paraphrase of Chris Stratton: I meant that a leader also has to be able to follow as well. I lead, and then go where she goes in ballroom, more or less. I assume the leader has to be even more ready to follow in salsa or west coast swing. I know the leader has to be very responsive in lindy. Anyway, that's what I meant.
ahh ok. sometimes I hastily equate "good following" with "dancing doormat" :wink:
 
#70
Herding followers

There is a particularly flamboyant leader here. He dances in a town called Santa Cruz, just south of San Francisco. When I was completely new to salsa, I was very taken by the spins and intricate patterns he danced.

After a couple of months, I became aware that he never adjusts his lead to the needs of his followers. A couple of weeks ago, I watched him spinning, and flinging a rather stunned woman continuously for about 15 minutes. She did not look like she was having a good time as she was literally herded about.

I decided then that I had been mistaken. He was not a good partner dancer after all...

-Dick
 
#72
africana said:
word! @ DM, Kdogg, Vince

You guys address issues that have frustrated so many salseras to the point of silence. It's truly refreshing to be in a place where male dancers don't have peas in place of actual brain cells
I don't even know where to start on this topic...
ha lol :lol: ,work it africana 8)
 
#73
Re: Herding followers

dickda said:
There is a particularly flamboyant leader here. He dances in a town called Santa Cruz, just south of San Francisco. When I was completely new to salsa, I was very taken by the spins and intricate patterns he danced.

After a couple of months, I became aware that he never adjusts his lead to the needs of his followers. A couple of weeks ago, I watched him spinning, and flinging a rather stunned woman continuously for about 15 minutes. She did not look like she was having a good time as she was literally herded about.

I decided then that I had been mistaken. He was not a good partner dancer after all...

-Dick
thanks dickda for the post,for those who want to learn this is very important to take heed. i"ve been a performer for 30 years off and on and started dance lessons about 8 years ago(all kinds of dance) since im a quitar player /singer/dj i can really milk it(thats part of who i am, not a show, i really get into the music) anyway it was hard for me to tone it down in hustle and salsa-hence not adjustng my lead to the different levels of the ladys,a lot of girls were afraid to dance with me in both worlds(not because i can't dance) but because of what you wrote above. i've learned to tone it down and be more in tune with the ladys in this way-it takes time(not 8 years :wink: ) but ladys if ya dance with a mamaluke like the above metioned tell him in your own way if your a bold one u might help him,if he wants it.
 
#74
Re: Herding followers

dickda said:
There is a particularly flamboyant leader here. He dances in a town called Santa Cruz, just south of San Francisco. When I was completely new to salsa, I was very taken by the spins and intricate patterns he danced.

After a couple of months, I became aware that he never adjusts his lead to the needs of his followers. A couple of weeks ago, I watched him spinning, and flinging a rather stunned woman continuously for about 15 minutes. She did not look like she was having a good time as she was literally herded about.

I decided then that I had been mistaken. He was not a good partner dancer after all...

-Dick
Agree with dancin/dj.
Ladies keep going back to these kinds of leads, and so they continue this stuff for years thinking they are the ****

These women feel that they MUST follow whatever the man does even if it hurts them, because they don't want to be labeled a "bad follow", oh and by the way people are watching

Well I'd rather fight to keep my healthy shoulders than be whipped and admired by everyone else :evil:
These days I won't even listen to friends who allow themselves to be used like this and then complain about it later

One more thing that exacerbates this problem is that there may not be as many good leads around as follows, so ANYone that can dance and flash the women feels they are great
 

Sagitta

Well-Known Member
#75
Re: Herding followers

dickda said:
There is a particularly flamboyant leader here. He dances in a town called Santa Cruz, just south of San Francisco. When I was completely new to salsa, I was very taken by the spins and intricate patterns he danced.

After a couple of months, I became aware that he never adjusts his lead to the needs of his followers. A couple of weeks ago, I watched him spinning, and flinging a rather stunned woman continuously for about 15 minutes. She did not look like she was having a good time as she was literally herded about.

I decided then that I had been mistaken. He was not a good partner dancer after all...

-Dick
Hola! And welcome to df. :D I know some like the guy whom you described. No fun at all and poor dancing IMO, as well.
 

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