Is social dancing really social? (young student)

Tango researchers have debunked this, but it persists.

Why is "Argentine Tango" no longer danced "in the streets?" Well, there seem to be lots of outdoor milongas when the weather is nice. And there are lots of people performing on the streets in Buenos Aires. But, with the exception of people dancing in the "courtyards" of tenement buildings in Buenos Aires a long time ago, most dancing of tango happened in doors.
Then there are those other tangos...
i think latin america does a great job at preserving the roots of their various dances, NA not so much.
 
I don't understand why no one ever gets this. The problem is the music....! (even looking at the competitive side of ballroom the young'uns would rather dance samba and chacha over a waltz and a foxtrot any day.) Why is it so hard to understand that OF COURSE millennials would rather dance to Kiesza than Andy Williams ... lol

Ballroom and other forms of partner dancing are not dying out. They are forms that you mature INTO. And adults want suspended floors, air conditioning, and clean bathrooms.
i dont think its fair to say they are forms you mature into since many of them were started by kids in clubs. also that discredits many dancers that are practicing the dance and are very young at the moment.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
"NA" has done a pretty darn good job of preserving Lindy Hop (Frankie Manning style which is in a National Dance Curriculum) and Balboa. Even Weest Coast Swing kinda sorta is the same as it was in the 50s. Also, there is square dancing, clogging, and pretty close to the classic form of "round dances" such as schottiche, and Gasp! Cotton Eye Joe, polka, etc. (The "gateway drug" of Line Dancing sucks people into the partner dances at CW places!) And, other than some ads on the radio or tv, none of us older folks are out there beating the bushes to get the college age crowd to show up at the CW places.
 
I still haven't heard an answer as to 1. why seniors need to bring in youth and 2. why that Will benefit them.
1. to keep the community growing.

2. it doesnt necessarily benefit them personally but it benefits the community they are a part of.

ive answered these questions in lengthy posts throughout this thread actually.
 
"NA" has done a pretty darn good job of preserving Lindy Hop (Frankie Manning style which is in a National Dance Curriculum) and Balboa. Even Weest Coast Swing kinda sorta is the same as it was in the 50s. Also, there is square dancing, clogging, and pretty close to the classic form of "round dances" such as schottiche, and Gasp! Cotton Eye Joe, polka, etc. (The "gateway drug" of Line Dancing sucks people into the partner dances at CW places!) And, other than some ads on the radio or tv, none of us older folks are out there beating the bushes to get the college age crowd to show up at the CW places.
and i have acknowledged and praised the success of WCS and lindy hop in previous posts!
 

IndyLady

Well-Known Member
not one generation is more busy dancing than the other, but the older generation has a certain responsibility to preserve whatever they are involved in, this goes for anything in life really.

anyhow, many of you agree with the fact that the older gen doesnt necessarily use media to promote their communities as much as they should, and for me thats a big part of the equation.

im aware studios exist and i know they dont turn young learners away. im aware of that, but there is no incentive to bring in young people and keep them interested, a lot of what you guys are saying is blaming the youth for not knowing about partner dancing more. like its their fault they cant find information, its their fault for having a different perspective.

i think personality is vastly shaped by someones surroundings and what came before, like how being raised a certain way will make you see things a certain way. its not a kids fault for not being raised right. if the older gen never tried to understand how kids work, or forget how they saw the world when they were young, there will always be a disconnection between the groups.
Have you ever shared these thoughts and opinions about the older generation with your own parents or older people in your family? I'd be curious to know their reaction.
 

stash

Well-Known Member
The incentive needs to come from within if it's a hobby. I do knitting because I like it. I do dance because I like it. I went to school because my parents told me to (aka not hobby), and if I didn't I would be kicked out of the house. I stay in shape because I want to look good. Those are the incentives. For 90% of things incentives have to come within a person. It's not an external thing.

Sure there are ways that these incentives can be brought out in someone by an outside source. But you (the collective you) would be miserable if you were doing something because of an "outside incentive" and not because you wanted to do it.

Honestly I don't think your giving my generation enough credit. They way it's coming off from you is that we have no minds of our own, and that we need to be told what to be interested it. At least when it comes to partner dancing. Maybe that's not what you intend to sound like. But it is what it sounds like...

I don't need a studio to incentivize dance for me. And I'm sure nobody needs an incentive to do what they love to do.
 

JudeMorrigan

Well-Known Member
1. to keep the community growing.

2. it doesnt necessarily benefit them personally but it benefits the community they are a part of.

ive answered these questions in lengthy posts throughout this thread actually.
As people have noted, growth doesn't have to come directly from youth. There are plenty of dancers who come into the hobby later in life. Don't get me wrong - I really do think it would be great if there were more youth involvement in partner dance. But marketing to an older demographic is a perfectly viable growth strategy.
 

JudeMorrigan

Well-Known Member
This is sort of a random anecdote, but I'm also one of those people who took up dancing in their 30s. Now, there was this guy I knew in college. Literally the only thing I remember about him beyond his name and rough appearance is the time he stopped by my dorm room to suggest I go to the university's ballroom dance club's next meeting, that it would be a good way to meet chicks. Knowing what I do now, I assume they had a lack of leads and the club's members had had a homework assignment to try to recruit more.

Anyways, there are certainly times where I find myself thinking back on that and thinking "Christ, imagine if I had another dozen years to work with when it comes to my dancing". But, here's the thing that my pro points out whenever I find myself grumping about having started so relatively late. There're absolutely no guarantees I would have been better off for it.

I was really very poor at the time. I certainly couldn't have afforded real lessons. Peer instruction can be very hit-or-miss. It's entirely plausible that my experience with the FSU ballroom dance club could have mirrored my experience with the school's fencing club. That is, that I'd do it for a semester, get distracted by my classes and never really put much time into it. And then, maybe when I was in the place in my life where dancing was able to take root, I would have skipped it as something I had already tried and wound up going with a different hobby. Maybe not forcing things before I was really ready was a good thing.
 

IndyLady

Well-Known Member
At the risk of stealing your thunder Jude, that was one of my earlier points as well about my own experience... on the one hand I wish I had started dancing sooner, on the other hand it's not a sure thing that it would have ended with the same result, only better.

And as much as I hope my son becomes a dancer, there is no guarantee of that either no matter how much exposure he has. My mother is into all sorts of fabric arts, sewing, crafting, has won numerous state fair awards and such - it would seem natural that would get passed on and she definitely tried (I was in 4-H and home ec), but I don't even remember how to operate a sewing machine and I always take my alterations to a professional. My dad worked on cars... I know how to drive one, put gas in it, and where the oil dipstick is located. That's it. My hubby was forced to play little league baseball... hated it... never touched it again. So it comes back to stash's point that the incentive is internal.
 
This is sort of a random anecdote, but I'm also one of those people who took up dancing in their 30s. Now, there was this guy I knew in college. Literally the only thing I remember about him beyond his name and rough appearance is the time he stopped by my dorm room to suggest I go to the university's ballroom dance club's next meeting, that it would be a good way to meet chicks. Knowing what I do now, I assume they had a lack of leads and the club's members had had a homework assignment to try to recruit more.

Anyways, there are certainly times where I find myself thinking back on that and thinking "Christ, imagine if I had another dozen years to work with when it comes to my dancing". But, here's the thing that my pro points out whenever I find myself grumping about having started so relatively late. There're absolutely no guarantees I would have been better off for it.

I was really very poor at the time. I certainly couldn't have afforded real lessons. Peer instruction can be very hit-or-miss. It's entirely plausible that my experience with the FSU ballroom dance club could have mirrored my experience with the school's fencing club. That is, that I'd do it for a semester, get distracted by my classes and never really put much time into it. And then, maybe when I was in the place in my life where dancing was able to take root, I would have skipped it as something I had already tried and wound up going with a different hobby. Maybe not forcing things before I was really ready was a good thing.
This. I know so many people from the collegiate world who resigned themselves to ballroom pretty much being done once they graduate (i.e. they couldn't do it in the "real world") because of the cost thing. I'm very fortunate as a twenty-something to have a high enough income to support competitive ballroom (though pro-am is a stretch I doubt I'll indulge), but I'm definitely one of the lucky ones in that aspect and I know many in my generation aren't so lucky.
 

JudeMorrigan

Well-Known Member
At the risk of stealing your thunder Jude, that was one of my earlier points as well about my own experience... on the one hand I wish I had started dancing sooner, on the other hand it's not a sure thing that it would have ended with the same result, only better.
Oh, sure. I have no doubt that it's a very common story. With the possible exception of the way that was the only thing that I remember about that guy. That was the part that's always amused me.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
i dont think its fair to say they are forms you mature into since many of them were started by kids in clubs. also that discredits many dancers that are practicing the dance and are very young at the moment.
It does not discredit any young person who is dancing. It is a fact that the majority of people that make up formalized styles of partner dance in America are passed their twenties. OF COURSE there are anomalies, but that doesn't deny fact that there are simply forms that we mature out of and forms we mature into.

Ballet is a perfect example of a style that people mature out of. I don't see many 50+ year olds doing BBoy or popping and locking either... And yes there are adults who pick it up at 50, but we are not talking about outliers, we are talking about the vast majority.

There is a social atmosphere to every style of dance. And it is ok that you don't find certain situations and communities to your liking. No one s forcing you to go waltzing with the 65 year olds. Believe me, they probably would feel extremely out of place, unappreciated, and antisocial at the World B-Boy Classic...

So I really don't get what this thread is all about. Except that you think everything should be cheap, on the street, and fun for you.
 
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A young guy is here giving his opinions and pov. It is interesting to hear someone elses dance experience and I am sure, no I know, that he is not the only one who feels this way. So instead of trying to only refute him maybe try and see things from his shoes.

In comparison to the way the rest of the world learns to dance, ballroom is a small part.
 

raindance

Well-Known Member
A young guy is here giving his opinions and pov. It is interesting to hear someone elses dance experience and I am sure, no I know, that he is not the only one who feels this way. So instead of trying to only refute him maybe try and see things from his shoes.

In comparison to the way the rest of the world learns to dance, ballroom is a small part.
If he was telling us how his world works, so we could learn about it, that would be one thing. But he isn't, really, beyond telling us that a different part of the dance world (not even sure he is focused on ballroom, just partner dancing which is very very broad) needs to be more like his part of the dance world.

I'm sure both parts of the dance world can learn from each other... but adamantly stating that some dance culture you are not really a part of and don't fully understand needs to change and be more like the one you are used to isn't exactly the way to get people wanting to listen. We're trying to help him understand the partner dancing world, or a bit of how it works, at least. He comes across as wanting to change it before he has really become a part of it.
 
If he was telling us how his world works, so we could learn about it, that would be one thing. But he isn't, really, beyond telling us that a different part of the dance world (not even sure he is focused on ballroom, just partner dancing which is very very broad) needs to be more like his part of the dance world.

I'm sure both parts of the dance world can learn from each other... but adamantly stating that some dance culture you are not really a part of and don't fully understand needs to change and be more like the one you are used to isn't exactly the way to get people wanting to listen. We're trying to help him understand the partner dancing world, or a bit of how it works, at least. He comes across as wanting to change it before he has really become a part of it.
I trained in ballroom, have friends who are studio owners, and might become one myself in the future...So I find his opinion interesting. But I have an open mind and want to hear about others life experiences, not just the people in my circle. Do I agree with all his points? No. But It doesn't mean they are invalid. I have heard some of the same points from other people. I can understand why some become defensive but it really is a waste of time. Sometimes when you are in a certain world you get caught up is said world and forget that there is a lot out there. In my world of social dance there are all ages dancing(except at clubs that are 21+). So this conversation was very interesting to me and I tried to see where he was coming from. A little empathy goes a long way. It doesn't always have to be your way or the highway :)
 

JoeB

Active Member
For $400 a month, I could rent another apartment and just not move anything into it except a stereo. Maybe I'm in the wrong line of work.
And after looking a bit more, for $100/mo, I can rent a 12x24' storage building with a nice smooth concrete floor and an electrical outlet at the edge of town. As I recall, it's not uncommon for garage bands to rent at that site because they can store their stuff set up and practice without bothering anybody. (Closest residential neighbor is a mostly deaf elderly couple a few hundred yards away.)

Of course, that's not climate controlled, but I bet they'd let me run a window unit or a Port-A-Cool for a few bucks a month more to cover the added power draw. (The outlets are mostly just used for lights or trickle chargers, though the bands will run small amps off them in addition to lights, so I guess they can handle 15-20A draw.)
 
And after looking a bit more, for $100/mo, I can rent a 12x24' storage building with a nice smooth concrete floor and an electrical outlet at the edge of town. As I recall, it's not uncommon for garage bands to rent at that site because they can store their stuff set up and practice without bothering anybody. (Closest residential neighbor is a mostly deaf elderly couple a few hundred yards away.)

Of course, that's not climate controlled, but I bet they'd let me run a window unit or a Port-A-Cool for a few bucks a month more to cover the added power draw. (The outlets are mostly just used for lights or trickle chargers, though the bands will run small amps off them in addition to lights, so I guess they can handle 15-20A draw.)
W
For $400 a month, I could rent another apartment and just not move anything into it except a stereo. Maybe I'm in the wrong line of work.
Where are you located? You could not rent a closet for $400 where I am :p Seriously!
 

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