Isn't Tango appropriate for married men or women ?

#61
Well, if you don't dance at all over the evening you are probably going to get no/a worse table the next time you go to that milonga.
There are definitely a couple of milongas in BsAs where the organiser may be 'generous' to you with where they place you on your first visit, but if you don't dance much (if at all), that will certainly negatively influence your chances when you return.

Good seats at a milonga are always at a premium. The more skilled/experienced dancers and/or the hardcore regulars will usually get the prime spots. There is a hierarchy of sorts. Fortunately though, everyone pays the same to get in (or at least no one gets charged more than the standard - some people will always get in free because...) Whereas, in other situations e.g. sports, the best seats will go to whoever pays the most, regardless of whether they have any genuine interest in the event.
 
#62
Finally, yes DW was a Tango newbie that didn't know all the etiquette. Yes, she is obviously very desired as a dance partner. A subtext to my post was empathizing with the ladies here on DF that complain guys will preferentially ask younger and beautiful ladies, even if they are not very good dancers. It is sad to observe a guy waiting upon my beautiful DW for several tandas and not take that opportunity to give a nice dance to any of several ladies that have been sitting (who are often better dancers than my DW).
Why do you think those sitting ladies want to dance with that guy?

Those ladies might have rejected his invitations in the past. Maybe, his dancing style is dynamic and athletic, and those "better dancers" prefer something simple. Some of ladies even block turns because they get dizzy.

A younger dancer usually wants dynamic, even showy figures.
 
#65
Those are good thoughts, and I appreciate your trying to find the most positive possible explanation.

It's pretty obvious these ladies want to dance with him, they'll readily do so when he asks when my DW is not there. They'll also readily say yes to him when my DW is there, they just might have to wait several Tandas while he keeps trying over and over to get a dance with my wife, sitting out if he fails -- and then again later in the night wait several more Tandas when he keeps trying to get a 2nd dance with her, and sitting out when he fails. You'd think he'd learn after 10s of Milongas that I start and finish the night with her, but he tries then, too. There is more data I don't want to type up, but trust me this particular guy, um, let's say puts a very high value on dancing with my DW, to put a positive spin on it. :cool:
Why do you think those sitting ladies want to dance with that guy?

Those ladies might have rejected his invitations in the past. Maybe, his dancing style is dynamic and athletic, and those "better dancers" prefer something simple. Some of ladies even block turns because they get dizzy.

A younger dancer usually wants dynamic, even showy figures.
 
#66
Gssh said:
Well, if you don't dance at all over the evening you are probably going to get no/a worse table the next time you go to that milonga.
There are definitely a couple of milongas in BsAs where the organiser may be 'generous' to you with where they place you on your first visit, but if you don't dance much (if at all), that will certainly negatively influence your chances when you return.

Good seats at a milonga are always at a premium. The more skilled/experienced dancers and/or the hardcore regulars will usually get the prime spots. There is a hierarchy of sorts. Fortunately though, everyone pays the same to get in (or at least no one gets charged more than the standard - some people will always get in free because...) Whereas, in other situations e.g. sports, the best seats will go to whoever pays the most, regardless of whether they have any genuine interest in the event.
Wow, those BaAs milongas must be crowded. Thanks for the info, it is fun to learn. There is absolutely no problem spectating in my little area, indeed it happens that people will come and just watch.

This is all good information for me, and helps me realize I'm not ready for BaAs yet (not that I was about to go). A better near term goal for me would be going to an out-of-state workshop -- I'm thinking maybe in 2019, you can't rush a good thing. :cool:
 

chomsky

Well-Known Member
#67
Where I come from it is appropriate. I guess it is culture-specific? Anyways, in my dancing experience being married makes no difference...
 
#68
After many years teaching, and watching couples bring tango into their lives, I know this much. There is no room for jealousy in tango. I know lots of couples where only one dances. If the other one isn't jealous, the partnership will survive. Where there is jealousy, the relationship dies.

Why would one want to keep a person they loved from doing something they enjoyed? How can someone justify that to their best friend?
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#70
Why would one want to keep a person they loved from doing something they enjoyed?
"- Darling, you won't be wearing THAT tie!
- But sweetheart, this tie is from College. I love it!"


Other way round, I lost countless regular followers after they met a non-tango guy.
 

SwingingAlong

Well-Known Member
#72
If it were me I would take her along, show her that you can dance and tell her that you want to dance AT WITH HER rather than anyone else.
This, and:
- that giving it up is a non-negotiable
- that if she chooses not to dance with you, that she is always welcome to come and watch.

I took this approach with my man. At first he didn't want to dance and didn't come to watch. Then my dance stories got him brave enough to try, and now he is learning, as well as watching me dance what he hasn't learnt yet with other people.

haha I just joined in with an historic conversation:rofl: didn't realise it was that old!
 
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jantango

Active Member
#73
I would not take a bet on this one.
Let's say the place is a BsAs milonga, let's say there are only portenos/nas and one young couple of just married tourists, sitting together hand in hand. Now let's ask, say Jantango, if she's absolutely positive that no invite will ever be issued.
There is no reason that a true milonguero would disrespect a couple seated together. I wrote a post on my blog about the Ten Commandments of the Milongueros https://jantango.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/ten-commandments/ #7 Thou shalt not dance with another man's partner.

That's why foreign women who travel to Buenos Aires with their husbands know they must enter and sit separately in the milonga if they want to dance with milongueros.
 
#74
There is no reason that a true milonguero would disrespect a couple seated together. I wrote a post on my blog about the Ten Commandments of the Milongueros https://jantango.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/ten-commandments/ #7 Thou shalt not dance with another man's partner.
Sounds as if it's not a thankful option for a tanguera to marry a well known milonguero.
But as you mention a sentence of Ricardo Vidort at the bottom of that page - he told us in his last interview:
There are thousands who dance tango, but there are very few who dance tango with feeling. We are no more than 30 or 40 milongueros, so when we die, nobody will remember us.
https://jantango.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/his-last-interview/
That was ten years ago - I suppose the chances are not really high that many of them are still alive...
 
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#76
Some of them are married, and their wives dance. A lot of such couples go to some milongas together, to others separately. At milongas they go separately to some people may not even be aware that they are married. I only knew some of them were married when they lost a spouse. :(
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#77
There is no reason that a true milonguero would disrespect a couple seated together.
Aren't they all dead? I remember you organized a collective lecture of sorts, with them lecturing a paying audience. And that was long ago.
My question was more about the usual porteno.
But hey, we'll see. My partner and her husband are over there for the next three weeks. Besides a deep love and tenderness and laughs and all, they share a passion for this dance.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#78
There is no reason that a true milonguero would disrespect a couple seated together. I wrote a post on my blog about the Ten Commandments of the Milongueros https://jantango.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/ten-commandments/ #7 Thou shalt not dance with another man's partner.

That's why foreign women who travel to Buenos Aires with their husbands know they must enter and sit separately in the milonga if they want to dance with milongueros.
Note that a lot of dancers in BAs are perfectly willing to dance (and attempt all kinds of other things) with another mans partner if they feel they can get away with it - it is more a question of deniability. And if a couple is too obviously foreign/unfamiliar with the rules they might not even care about that.
 

jantango

Active Member
#79
Sounds as if it's not a thankful option for a tanguera to marry a well known milonguero.
But as you mention a sentence of Ricardo Vidort at the bottom of that page - he told us in his last interview:
That was ten years ago - I suppose the chances are not really high that many of them are still alive...
The recent post "Remembering them" on my blog is a list of names of those who passed on in the last eight years or so.


Why not? If they sit separately, then they sit separately.
I won't get into explaining the culture of the milonga and the milongueros. If you don't know the culture first hand, there is no point.

Some of them are married, and their wives dance. A lot of such couples go to some milongas together, to others separately. At milongas they go separately to some people may not even be aware that they are married. I only knew some of them were married when they lost a spouse. :(
Being "married" means something else to portenos. A wedding means two are married in the USA; a couple says they're married in Argentina without one.

Aren't they all dead? I remember you organized a collective lecture of sorts, with them lecturing a paying audience. And that was long ago.
My question was more about the usual porteno.
But hey, we'll see. My partner and her husband are over there for the next three weeks. Besides a deep love and tenderness and laughs and all, they share a passion for this dance.
You're probably the only other person besides me who remembers plans for a Congreso Milonguero and then 9/11 happened.

I can only comment on the older dancers in Buenos Aires, many of whom have danced tango all their lives. I never enter the milongas of the younger generation dancers. Milongueros viejos respect the codes to this day.

Please tell your partner to get in touch with me. I'll send you a PM with my contact information.

Note that a lot of dancers in BAs are perfectly willing to dance (and attempt all kinds of other things) with another mans partner if they feel they can get away with it - it is more a question of deniability. And if a couple is too obviously foreign/unfamiliar with the rules they might not even care about that.
If you say so.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#80
I won't get into explaining the culture of the milonga and the milongueros. If you don't know the culture first hand, there is no point.
I think there is worth in trying to explain it - i cherish the time i lived in BA immensly, and i think the culture of the milonga is a model for how to enjoy this dance in an civilized way for anywhere. It is finely tuned to give the best experience to the most people.
But for people visiting i think it is also somewhat important to not overly romanticize it - the codigos exist because there are people who don't follow them, they provide tools for calling them out on it, and to protect oneself, because it is obvious when somebody disrespects them. Independent if the is BA or anywhere else, it is never the people who respect other people who are the problem.
 

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