Javier Rodriguez and Carla Rossi

#21
If you watch his dancing 10 yrs ago (Geraldine Rojas) you could notice that his routines are the same his dancing is the same.
But you don't think that's due to adherence to his frame and the classic tango moves?

He shows great athleticism but lacks subtlety that tango requires.
So, is the tango to be interpreted as the woman being not so subtle, while the man IS to be subtle? It must be a hard balance to be the lead yet remain decidely subtle at the same time.
 
#22
I preferred the live performance of course, but that doesn't mean the video doesn't give me chills! Since we're on the topic, here's another fairly recent video:
Oj! that was fun! Thanks for sharing!

Guillermina is the most wild follower and with Junior Cervila she was hovering in the air in many different ways! She has danced with several partners and I get a feeling that she has thick skin on her nose as they say in Sweden! Needed here I think.

Video and live performances offer different experiences and for me the video way has taken over. During my video watching years the aspects video is good at have become important and I do not enjoy the live nights so much any more.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#23
He has a frame not an embrace.
This is due his inability do adapt his dancing to the partner.
I don't dance the same with all partners.
He has the same moves/tecnhnique for 10 years.
And he hits songs occasionally.
Dancing to the partner and song are essentials of good social tango dancer.

I am 188 cm tall, and I know what adaptibility to partners mean.
There is my prefered height for partners with my frame and height
But I cannot embrace every follower like that.
So my dancing technique seems the same from the outside,
but various adjustments from the inside.
 
#24
He has a frame not an embrace.
This is due his inability do adapt his dancing to the partner.
Have you danced with him to know how he feels to his partner? If it is a rigid frame or an embrace?

So my dancing technique seems the same from the outside,
but various adjustments from the inside.
And you are sure that he doesn't make adjustments from the inside? Perhaps he too looks the same from the outside, but feels different for each partner.

Finally, his dance seems to me to be rather classic salon style. This is not for me, but why are you complaining? He is elegant, smooth, and dances the musical phrasing. How is this bad?
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#25
Have you danced with him to know how he feels to his partner? If it is a rigid frame or an embrace?
And you are sure that he doesn't make adjustments from the inside? Perhaps he too looks the same from the outside, but feels different for each partner.
Finally, his dance seems to me to be rather classic salon style. This is not for me, but why are you complaining? He is elegant, smooth, and dances the musical phrasing. How is this bad?
I haven't danced with him, but what I see from his performances problems when dancing with various dancers.
He is not elegant nor smooth because the dance is continuously braking.
He recognize musical phrasing but miss a lot other things from songs.
And misses so much that I cannot connect song and his dancing which I can fortunately with some couples.

Classic tango salon I like is from Amanda and Adrian Costa.
 
#26
Classic tango salon I like is from Amanda and Adrian Costa.
I have to admit that I also like Amanda & Adrian Costa better than Javier Rodriguez, but, personally, I have never felt like being critical of someone, anyone, who dances far better than I, and Javier does so. That may not speak well to my dancing, but oh well.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#27
I have never felt like being critical of someone, anyone, who dances far better than I, and Javier does so. That may not speak well to my dancing, but oh well.
I am analytical and critical.

And some couples that I adore in certain parts of tango dancing are mediocre in other areas.
I take what I like from them, and ignore the bad parts.
 
#28
But the question is if this is popular here in the forum: Do you like this better than the earlier?

I now believe the comparison to be false because Javier truly has a unique style of dancing for different types of music, all of which I enjoy watching. You may have already noticed that every video of him dancing to staccato/rhythm tango is done in close embrace, no sweeps/ganchos/enrosques ever.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#30
How about this then? :))

I am constantly puzzled by the adulation for this kind
of currently fashionable exaggerated dancing.

It is tense, stiff and artificial. Both have the current fad
of stuck out derrières, hers more than his, so little if any dissociation
is possible: it's certainly not in evidence here.

Javier seems to choose partners like this one.

Both of them are rigidly stiff at the shoulders and arms thus locking
their upper bodies, whilst lower down they have little lower core
and no evidence of engaged pelvic floors. As tango dancers who dance
and move like this seem to adopt this poor posture as their norm
they may not even be able to find their pelvic floor, let alone engage it.

Sticking out your butt by means of a tilted pelvis breaks the physical
communication within your body, which is not good for a genuinely
improvised dance step by step, which this of course is not. Maybe later
in life, some of these dancers will find that they have to consistently
exercise to eradicate the harm this is doing to their bodies, some of that
being at a most fundamental level.
 
#31
I am constantly puzzled by the adulation for this kind
of currently fashionable exaggerated dancing.

It is tense, stiff and artificial. Both have the current fad
of stuck out derrières, hers more than his, so little if any dissociation
is possible: it's certainly not in evidence here.

Javier seems to choose partners like this one.

Both of them are rigidly stiff at the shoulders and arms thus locking
their upper bodies, whilst lower down they have little lower core
and no evidence of engaged pelvic floors. As tango dancers who dance
and move like this seem to adopt this poor posture as their norm
they may not even be able to find their pelvic floor, let alone engage it.

Sticking out your butt by means of a tilted pelvis breaks the physical
communication within your body, which is not good for a genuinely
improvised dance step by step, which this of course is not. Maybe later
in life, some of these dancers will find that they have to consistently
exercise to eradicate the harm this is doing to their bodies, some of that
being at a most fundamental level.
What dancer(s) represent your quintessential tango?
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#32
Flippantly! My own!

Less flippantly, I'm a social dancer with little interest
in watching performances except on the academic level
of noting either what is attracting people to dance tango
or is being promoted by commercial teachers as tango.
Little of it has much similarity to the social dance
of Buenos Aires except at a superficial level.

In that context, some of the performance videos which
people like might be dismissed as bad dancing.

Look at the videos on www.tangoandchaos.org
for more clarification.

There is little point in me repeatedly commenting
but the exception is sometimes where I see positively
harmful posturing being lauded as good dancing.
 

Attachments

sixela

Well-Known Member
#33
Less flippantly
Forgive me for thinking that was just as flippant as the first paragraph.

koinzell wazs asking who you thought were _good_ dancers (yourself excluded), and you answered by pointing out some of the vast host of people whose dancing you find execrable. That's not answering the question, now, is it?
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#34
Forgive me for thinking that was just as flippant as the first paragraph.

koinzell wazs asking who you thought were _good_ dancers (yourself excluded), and you answered by pointing out some of the vast host of people whose dancing you find execrable. That's not answering the question, now, is it?
Forgive you, why would I do that? ;)

I certainly did not describe anyone as execrable,
in fact I named no-one.

Since you insist, my main inspiration has always been
Ricardo Vidort, the milonguero who in his later life had
the most exposure. He spoke English and travelled teaching.
His was also the most visually accessible milonguero style
and with a technique clearly consistent with his objective -
dancing the music. He is still remembered fondly in
Buenos Aires by those who knew or learned from him.

Thankfully he is woven into www.tangoandchaos.org.
Here is a new compilation of videos which should at
the very least demonstrate that, contrary to some claims,
some milongueros certainly could dance.:
 

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