Off-beat: am I being paranoid?

Sagitta

Well-Known Member
#81
I don't think that I really start forward. I usually shuffle my feet and move my body around getting the music into my body. Just by letting my feet and body move naturally I usually can find the beat without too much trouble. :)
 
#82
"Let us all be different".. variety of perception, feel, view, way of doing things is what keeps it interesting.. specially on the floor.. the world of dance would have been very boring indeed if we all shared the same experience and concept..

so long as it works for u.. and its a process.. and there somebody who loves dancing with u.. hey.. :cheers:
 
#83
alvaro said:
Remark: I don't think anybody said that not being able to tell the difference between 1 and 5 was a good thing. Being able to identify the musical phrase is good. Period.
Question: why is it so important to break forward (leader) on one? Why would it be wrong to break back on 1? Why is it such a big deal?

And please, dont confuse things. I hate it when i can't tell the 1 from the 5. But in the same way that i think it is bad to loose track of the musical phrase i also think it would be bad not being able to start my dance phrases in any direction i want.
This is exactly what I meant alvaro. Thank you.
 
#84
Aha! At my last salsa lesson (my third) the teacher said we were on beat but off phrase. So all this discussion explains what he means (I think). But it doesn't yet help me tell the difference between the 1 and 5. I am assuming (hoping) that that will all come later.
 
#85
Clave, had I been selfish/egotistical I would indeed put a show for my partner, as “put a show for” says nothing about the partner but rather the self, it says to the partner, you sit there and watch me do what I do, because HERE I AM! I am putting on a show for you the witness, but I don’t dance like that, to me it is 50/50, so I pour my heart onto hers hands, then let her be the judge of my selfishness as she and I take a ride through a place that the guy putting a show for her went by himself and left her there. All I was doing was introducing another accent of the language of mambo to the young lady. Yet, it was wrong because I say Potato (with an English accent) and she was taught Potato (with an American accent). My bad, I should be less selfish and say Potato just like she does, so we can understand each other and truly dance the only right way.

There might be a slight difference between speaking Chinese and starting on the one or five. I might be wrong of course. Am I to believe that I shouldn’t speak English because I have a Spanish accent, that I’m wrong, because Americans only know how to understand the proper American way to speak English? Or should I just speak it regardless of how close it is to American pronunciation? The point in social dancing is to communicate, to be your own person when you do so, not a robot going through the motions as programmed, so others like what we do. All I express is difference, to dare to do the things that are said not to be done, to take that freedom you see on the 1 and apply it to the 5, hence, the just dance!

There is no need to belittle others desire to become physically better. There is a need, however, to not care about their attempts to want to take me along for a physically superior ride. They want to leave me in the dust, fine, good for them, as for me, I will always be good wherever I am. I’m not here to be a Frankie Martinez, I’m here to be borikensalsero! I am here to enjoy the dance with the people that enjoy dancing with me, those that don’t, it’s ok because I know that I can’t give them what they look for in a dance, so it is to their benefit to seek elsewhere, perhaps one day we can meet in the middle and accept each other for being different.

I wouldn’t doubt that you feel free Clave! But the issue isn’t of knowing where the 1 or 5 are, but rather starting forward or backwards on it. Simply that, that each way is more than ok.

All I am saying is that we can definitely choose to start forward on the 1 or backwards at no cost to what we know how to do, for we have been freed from thinking that we must do only on a given beat. Don’t only see freedom on the 1, but also the 5. If I am so far fetch from the thought of thinking that it is perfectly ok to dance either way then by all means I apologize to the members who believe there is only one right way to dance, for I don’t want to step on their beliefs and ideas that dancing must be done as they were taught. I apologize for introducing other spices into the dish, and please those that feel threatened by my ideas of difference, skip my posts for they will hardly ever speak about anyone else but being our own person, as they will be full of, be your own person, seek your own place on the dance floor and always remember to take your partner with you. I’m sorry to want to stress another side of freedom found in anything we choose to do.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#86
Swingolder said:
Aha! At my last salsa lesson (my third) the teacher said we were on beat but off phrase. So all this discussion explains what he means (I think). But it doesn't yet help me tell the difference between the 1 and 5. I am assuming (hoping) that that will all come later.
It will all come later. After a while, you'll feel the phrasing, and 1 will feel completely different than 5... Just not yet. :? You'll get there. 8)
 
#87
borikensalsero said:
alvaro said:
Remark: I don't think anybody said that not being able to tell the difference between 1 and 5 was a good thing. Being able to identify the musical phrase is good. Period.
Question: why is it so important to break forward (leader) on one? Why would it be wrong to break back on 1? Why is it such a big deal?

And please, dont confuse things. I hate it when i can't tell the 1 from the 5. But in the same way that i think it is bad to loose track of the musical phrase i also think it would be bad not being able to start my dance phrases in any direction i want.
This is exactly what I meant alvaro. Thank you.
I think we're all pretty close to being on the same page, now. As I indicated at the end of my last post, even though I strongly prefer the 1, I will sometimes stay on the 3, 5, or 7 as a courtesy to my partner so that we don't start and stop too much during a single song (and the problem arises most often with mediocre live bands).

To answer alvaro's question, I think the initial forward break is simply a teaching convention that has become an almost universal understanding for "on1" dancing. That's not to say that the dance can't be enjoyed in other ways, but it's easier to transpose a move taught starting at "1" onto a musical measure also starting at "1." Even the Eddie Torres style of "on2" dancing starts with a tap on the 1 before breaking on 2. So, for me, the reinforcement of breaking on the 1 over and over while practicing has made that feel "natural" within my muscle memory or "ear-body coordination" or whatever you want to call it.

Like I said before, I just wanted to explain what some of us on1 "purists" (which sounds much better than "anal-retentive stiffs" :wink: ) are feeling when we dance.
 

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