Open Telemark, or Outside Change to PP

#1
I wanted to get your opinions about what tends to go right or wrong in these figures as the couple changes from closed to promenade. What are the ingredients that make for a good transition to promenade position?

I have heard many different anecdotes/explanations including:
- man opens himself but hands stay behind
- man uses right hip a little to indicate PP

What about the lady? Anything that helps her better differentiate whether she will step out in closed vs promenade?
 

vit

Active Member
#2
Well, both are "left promenades" as my teachers call it
When leading to PP, I turn my hips to the left more than the shoulders/frame, which turns the lady to PP. When finishing OP, I turn the frame about as much as hips (although not exactly the same time)
In "right promenades" (like open impetus etc) hips stop turning before the frame, which opens the lady to PP
 

Dr Dance

Well-Known Member
#4
To "differentiate" between closed and promenade position, my lead subtly changes. For promenade position, I open my left hip while keeping my topline facing her. I'll look more leftwards to present a visual. Then I'll push sideways out of my right foot instead of diagonally forward for my second step while I simultaneously stretch my right shoulder to better enable her to respond. As I make my first step for the "new figure," I'll usually close my left hip.

Larinda made a nice point in the previous post. Rather than try to "muscle" her into position, I'll focus instead upon dancing my own part while still keeping a sound connection with my partner. If she is allowed to dance her own part to respond to your lead, she can help to maximize your dancing as a couple.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#8
Seriously in the outside change to pp... from the very beginning the lady is already facing where you want her to be. Don't turn her. Don't do anything to her. Just allow her to keep moving forward in the direction she already is. Simply switch sides and turn yourself to pp without messing with her.
 
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Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#9
The other thing, as mentioned above, is that these are left turning promenades. And those happen with the man turning off the lady instead of turing into the lady. You can't imagine how many times I coach inexperienced dancers who start an open telemark then try to end MOVING DW by turing his top to the right ... as if he is leading a right turning pp. The poor lady starts off turning left, then suddenly is forced backwards to the right to make space for him, instead of swinging her top forward to the left.

These things turn LEFT...
 

RiseNFall

Well-Known Member
#10
Seriously in the outside change to pp... from the very beginning the lady is already facing where you want her to be. Don't turn her. Do do anything to her. Just allow her to keep moving forward in the direction she already is.
:rofl: My poor teacher in a lesson last week:" You are already facing where you need to be. Did I turn you? So why are you turning yourself?" If finally sunk in....
 
#11
The other thing, as mentioned above, is that these are left turning promenades. And those happen with the man turning off the lady instead of turing into the lady. You can't imagine how many times I coach inexperienced dancers who start an open telemark then try to end MOVING DW by turing his top to the right ... as if he is leading a right turning pp. The poor lady starts off turning left, then suddenly is forced backwards to the right to make space for him, instead of swinging her top forward to the left.

These things turn LEFT...
LOL. You know why.
 

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