Pitiful Swivels -- Help!

#21
pygmalion said:
Salsa has full-grown, prowling tigresses. Think not? Go to any salsa club. :lol:
You have to watch out for those tigresses... it's all well and good until they go for the jugular! I would imagine it would be difficult to relax and have fun when being 'prowled.'


pygmalion said:
Um. What does this have to do with swivels? Hmm? :lol: :lol:
Nothing and thank you for asking! :D

Sarah said:
Have you ever tried swiveling on all four paws at once - it's not easy I tell you. Gotta keep the claws retracted or you'll damage the dancefloor.
I hate it when that happens!!
 
#22
A lot of what has been suggested has been for making swivels better within a specific style. Straight-legged and close thighed (knees really) is the Jewel McGowan/Jean Veloz method for swivels. I love the way they look, but it isn't the only way. Syvia Sykes has her own method which differs a bit from theirs and is equally awesome.

Personally the best swivels I've ever seen are done by Sandra Gibson. Just breath taking, she uses a pretty deep bend in her knees and keeps her legs at least hip width apart, so a lot of it is going to be personal preference, but being extradodinarily skilled can make any style look great.

Sara Van Drake has awesome Westie swivels and she does it in a different manner than everyone else mentioned.

Now swivels versus switches, piking is completely dependant on what you are being lead into. If you try and use counterbalance rather than letting the leader create it, you are going to end up on your boutre.

Remember your weight transfer needs to be complete, one foot transitioning smoothly to the other. Do not split your weight. Lift the free foot so it is just above the floor, don't scuff, drag, or shuffle. Rotate on the ball of the weight bearing leg. Don't turn the hip, or the ankle, or the knee seperately but the entire leg swivels together and BOTH knees always face the same direction at the same time and stay in sync. Do not completely isolate your lower body from your upper. If you do so you make it much harder for the leader to determine where your weight us. What you want is to use your torso from the hips to the shoulders to "drive" the swivels so there is some counterbody rotation going on. Your right hand should have pressure switching from the inside edge of your hand to the outside edge of your hand wihtin the leader's grasp. This way he can not only feel where your weight is but control it.
 
#25
Damon, I see some material here for my next private:
d nice said:
Now swivels versus switches, piking is completely dependant on what you are being lead into. If you try and use counterbalance rather than letting the leader create it, you are going to end up on your boutre.
Huh?

Remember your weight transfer needs to be complete, one foot transitioning smoothly to the other. Do not split your weight. Lift the free foot so it is just above the floor, don't scuff, drag, or shuffle.
This is great! NOW I can do the Sylvia Sykes syncopation (see that other thread) that Swingin Boo told me about. I couldn't go from feet crossed to a swivel. Duh; keeping that other foot hovering does the trick real nicely. Thanks

Rotate on the ball of the weight bearing leg. Don't turn the hip, or the ankle, or the knee seperately but the entire leg swivels together and BOTH knees always face the same direction at the same time and stay in sync. Do not completely isolate your lower body from your upper. If you do so you make it much harder for the leader to determine where your weight us. What you want is to use your torso from the hips to the shoulders to "drive" the swivels so there is some counterbody rotation going on. Your right hand should have pressure switching from the inside edge of your hand to the outside edge of your hand wihtin the leader's grasp. This way he can not only feel where your weight is but control it.
Huh? again. I'm doing them in the mirror and don't see the contrabody rotation. Maybe the lead/follow has something to do with it. I'm glad I get to ask in person.
 
#26
suek said:
d nice said:
If you try and use counterbalance rather than letting the leader create it, you are going to end up on your boutre.
Huh?
If you try and initiate it on your own, you run the risk of falling on your toukus.

Huh? again. I'm doing them in the mirror and don't see the contrabody rotation. Maybe the lead/follow has something to do with it. I'm glad I get to ask in person.
This is something you probably need to see to really understand what I'm talking about if the description wasn't enough. Think the sweeps in Chicago Steppin. The torso turns and the lower body comes after. Not true isolation just a delay of movement. So if your upper and lower body start facing left, the upper body turns right the lower body slowly begins to turn right. As the lower body is in full motion the upper body has already begun turning to the left.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#27
Makes sense to me. My coach calls it the separation of church and state. Upper body church, lower body state. And you use the concept all the time -- with spins and turns, with swivels, to create snap with your hips in certain movements. All the time. :D
 
#31
Sorry... I was making a joke that wasn't funny... pivoting and swivels... how you must pivot to swivel.... again.... sorry

But I really am curious as to how the swivels differ between the dances.
 

Vince A

Active Member
#32
Thanks d nice,
I will attempt some of what you suggested. I do swivels, but the swivels are the ones that I learned in the Cha Cha and incorporated them into the ECS . . . close, but no cigar!
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#33
Isn't that weird? When I started this thread, I felt like I was asking a dumb question. But it looks like a lot of people were able to learn something from it, myself included. I guess that goes to show there's no such thing as a dumb question. ... Usually. :lol: :D
 

SDsalsaguy

Administrator
Staff member
#34
Warning: The following comment is entirely off topic!
pygmalion said:
I guess that goes to show there's no such thing as a dumb question. ... Usually. :lol: :D
Guess you haven't taught any college classes recently Jenn... :wink:
 
#35
SwinginBoo said:
I could be totally wrong here, but I don't think swivels are an essential part of WCS. :?
Swivels aren't an essential part of lindy hop either. They are the generally the followers first styling element, but they aren't essential.
 
#36
Swing Kitten said:
Sorry... I was making a joke that wasn't funny... pivoting and swivels... how you must pivot to swivel.... again.... sorry

But I really am curious as to how the swivels differ between the dances.
Its all about posture and musicality.

Technically there is no difference in how you execute a swivel... though I have heard switches refered to as swivels in wcs, I've heard twists (whole body rotation, not contra body rotation) refer to as swivels in wcs. So terminology may be different... but the method of what I call swivels is done the same in both dances, but within the character of the dance.
 

SDsalsaguy

Administrator
Staff member
#37
Hmmm, you have me thinking now Damon...

What would you say are essential differences, if anything, between the different swing dances?
 

Vince A

Active Member
#38
d nice,
Thanks, this is really helpful.

So, to take this just a bit further, if technically, the 'switches' in WCS and the 'swivels' in ECS and Cha Cha are essentially the same, with the differences being how they are prepped and lead, is the hand-hold connection (palm-to-palm) the same in all three?

I also noticed that my body is somewhat more or less upright in the different dances. Is this correct? Does the body need to be the same in all???
 
#39
me too. I get the "look" when I swivel in WCS. also for the bounce. oh well...it's a tough discipline for me especially on borderline music.
 
#40
This is just an accident, but the pivot, I believe, is one of the most important things in Tango. We mostly pivot with the feet together, stepping with the outside foot, pivoting on the inside foot. Opposite from the Army way. This makes the partners seem to move away from each other, but the hips come closer. Very attractive way to dance. The knees are bent, or they break. The torso leads the way, and the feet just go along after with the force from the upper body twist. That way, when I turn my partner's upper body a certain way, she just goes like magic. No work. Of course, the weight is completely on the inside foot of the turn, and the feet are together.
 

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