Private lessons vs. group classes and DVD's?

TC, I had the class tonight instead of next Thursday. The instructor started off by saying that he knew we were having a lot of problems with the quarter right turns-and that he would walk by us as we were dong them with partners and make comments. He came by me and my partner and said very good. Then, he let me and her demonstrate the correct way to do the step in the group class. TC, the exercise you gave me was the only reason that I was able to do that step correctly and meet his expectations. Thank you again for the fantastic exercise that enabled me to do the step well. You truly demonstrate what this forum in large part is and should be about.
In the next group class which begins shortly, I will be taking another course in the foxtrot. I asked the instructor to e-mail me a list of the steps that he would be teaching. He did so. One of the steps in the foxtrot that he will be teaching us is called the left turn C. I have both the Dance Vision bronze foxtrot DVD and the ISTD bronze foxtrot DVD. There is no left turn C listed on either DVD. I also typed into Google foxtrot left turn C hoping that perhaps there was a video demonstrating the left turn C. However, nothing turns up. I am wondering if there is another name for the left turn C that the DVD's are using, and/or if anyone knows of a link to that left turn C that demonstrates it?
 
In the USISTD syllabus, waltz has three left turns, A, B, C. C is the variation that is used in International, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. If I had to guess, I'd say a Foxtrot Left Turn C would be the equivalent, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. So I'm guessing it's the same as an International Foxtrot Reverse Turn. I'm just guessing though.
 
In the USISTD syllabus, waltz has three left turns, A, B, C. C is the variation that is used in International, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. If I had to guess, I'd say a Foxtrot Left Turn C would be the equivalent, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. So I'm guessing it's the same as an International Foxtrot Reverse Turn. I'm just guessing though.
Casayoto, thanks. I see where USISTD has it on their website syllabus as a foxtrot variation. Unfortunately, they do not have it on their DVD video which I purchased.
 
The USISTD printed syllabus includes a Left Turn C variation where there is a 1/4 turn between steps 2 and 3 and an additional 1/8 turn between steps 3 and 4.

If that's not what you learn, then I suspect you're finally moving into that territory where the studio decides to go off syllabus. I know at my studio, even though it's heavily USISTD-based, modifications and deviations from the syllabus are taught if it's easier to learn the step that way. Even in the DVIDA rhythm DVD's, Donald says (paraphrasing), "I know the syllabus tells you to do it this way, but my way makes more sense."
 
The USISTD printed syllabus includes a Left Turn C variation where there is a 1/4 turn between steps 2 and 3 and an additional 1/8 turn between steps 3 and 4.

If that's not what you learn, then I suspect you're finally moving into that territory where the studio decides to go off syllabus. I know at my studio, even though it's heavily USISTD-based, modifications and deviations from the syllabus are taught if it's easier to learn the step that way. Even in the DVIDA rhythm DVD's, Donald says (paraphrasing), "I know the syllabus tells you to do it this way, but my way makes more sense."
Wyndstorm Huntress, thank you. I have not had that class yet. It starts in the middle of this month. I do have the USISTD bronze foxtrot DVD, and the Left Turn C is not on that DVD. I do not have the USISTD printed syllabus. Do you happen to know what the remainder of the turns and/or steps are on the Foxtrot Left Turn C those turns and or steps past step 4? Thanks.
 
No problem free. Let me know if my guess turns out to be correct.
Casayoto, I e-mailed my group class teacher the question, and he e-mailed me back the answer. This is what he stated the Left Turn C is: "Left Turn C is a term used by USISTD. It means Left Box Turn (3/4 turn). It is not the same as Reverse (left) turn in International Foxtrot. It is same as Reverse (left) turn in Waltz just danced with timing SQQ SQQ. ISTD and USISTD are a bit different. ISTD syllabus is International Style only. USISTD is American (and Int'l)."

I also have the USISTD waltz DVD, and I notice now that the Left Turn C step is listed there. I think my group class teacher is a real expert in this field. In addition to being a very good dancer, he is by far the best group class dance teacher I have ever had.

Casayoto and WyndstormHuntress, thank you again for replying to my question. You are very helpful.
 
At your stage of the game, it's just practice. Try using saying the weight changes out loud as you go Right, Left, Right or Left, Right, Left.

I have been reluctant to enter this discussion but here goes; My coach is an instructor on a series of Dance Visions DVD's. If you are learning the DVIDA syllabus they are fine for patterns but that's about all. I was much like you and I wasted a year trying to do it DVD way. Do you have any idea how hard it is to unlearn a bad habit . . . . .
Isn't is possible that you can also learn bad habits from private lesson teachers as well? The reason I ask that question is because a number of persons have posted here, and stated that they learned "bad habits" from their previous private lesson teachers. Isn't it also possible that it may be even more likely that you would learn "bad habits" from the private lesson teacher than from the instructor on Dance Vision DVD's or USISTD DVD's; because, they are I assume experts in the field? :confused:
 

danceronice

Well-Known Member
Eh. They're just teachers, too. Plus they're just teachers, and not in a position to correct a student doing something blatantly wrong long enough to make it muscle memory. (Also, there's a difference between truly bad habits, which is poor teaching from bad teachers, and different technique. I'm sure that at least one of my teachers would happily nitpick the DVDs and be just as correct, he just would be coming at it from a different perspective.)
 
Eh. They're just teachers, too. Plus they're just teachers, and not in a position to correct a student doing something blatantly wrong long enough to make it muscle memory. (Also, there's a difference between truly bad habits, which is poor teaching from bad teachers, and different technique. I'm sure that at least one of my teachers would happily nitpick the DVDs and be just as correct, he just would be coming at it from a different perspective.)
Danceronice, good points.
 

danceronice

Well-Known Member
Sadly, you have to kind of know what you're doing to know if a teacher is any good, and by definition a beginner doesn't (non-dance example: my parents would have switched me to another riding trainer REALLY FAST if they'd known then what we know now about training horses and green riders. But we'd never had a horse or been with a hunter trainer before, what did we know?) Usually, a good teacher can fix most issues, though that doesn't address STYLE differences, where it's not a right or wrong thing. I'm still, after a year, getting used to NP and certain things his does differently. It wasn't so bad with Latin, but now we're starting Smooth, which I did a LOT more of in Boston, and it's back to 'curse you, muscle memory' as I do things I learned before. They're not TECHNICALLY wrong, they're just not how he does it. And he's leading. So I have to relearn it.
 
It seems to me there are three kinds of "bad habits", as others have said:

(1) Inevitable ones that emerge as part of the learning process; not anybody's fault, just the natural result of getting better and having to move up to the next layer of learning. Ideally these are identified and corrected as they show up.

(2) Not wrong, nor even at all "bad" - just different. Habits that, for one reason or another - whether it be style, different schools of thought, or even different physical abilities - need to be changed. Probably classified as "bad habits" because it is excruciatingly irritating to change them.

(3) Actual wrong information built into muscle memory by wrong instruction - or, in the case of self-instruction, by misunderstanding or misapplication.

In my experience (1) and (2) are exceedingly common no matter how good one's instruction - one measure of really good teaching, I think, is how quickly they are identified before they progress to deeply ingrained habits and are thus so much harder to modify.
 
In the USISTD syllabus, waltz has three left turns, A, B, C. C is the variation that is used in International, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. If I had to guess, I'd say a Foxtrot Left Turn C would be the equivalent, 3/4 of a turn over 2 measures. So I'm guessing it's the same as an International Foxtrot Reverse Turn. I'm just guessing though.
I note that the Dance Vision Bronze DVD has the rumba timing as Slow, Quick, Quick. However, the USISTD Bronze DVD has the rumba timing for the same steps or patterns as Quick, Quick, Slow. Does anyone know why that is or what it means?
 
It's two different ways to do it. I always start a rumba box with side, close, forward, which is counted quick, quick, slow. Some people start it forward, side, close, which is slow, quick, quick. Either one is fine.
 

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