Reasons to quit tango

Agreed! I don't think the new orchestras get enough respect...
Very true. The last time I heard a whole tanda by a modern tango orchestra (and I mean pure tango by that, not fusion/neo/electro stuff, that tanda was by Sexteto Milonguero) here in NYC was about a year ago ( and I usually go to 2-3 milongas per week).

It's a deplorable situation which sends a message to the musicians which goes like this: "No matter what you do, we are not going to play you, because you're not the real stuff."

And if one raises the question one will get probably accused of not loving traditional tango music enough:) Well, I adore golden age tango music and I listen to it at home every day. That doesn't change my opinion that new orchestras should be given a chance though.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Well, I strongly disagree with this and would appreciate some resolution.
then we will have a clear seperation and can quit this carping.
Mario, it seems to me that you are the one doing most of the carping. So if you want the carping to stop, you have the power to make that happen.

As for wanting a "resolution"... it's pretty clear at this point that by resolution, you mean "when everyone agrees with you". That's not going to happen. You need to accept that and agree to disagree.

I've gone to bat for you a couple of times, and I also love the style of dancing that you want to focus on. I was trained first in a very traditional BA social style and only learned more stagey and/or nuevo styles later. I don't think my first teacher played anything but D'Arienzo and DiSarli, and boleos were to be done without the foot leaving the floor. I wish we were closer in geography, because I think my partner could really help you with some of your questions (and I probably could too) Its hard to explain some of the things clearly in words that I could show you in about 5 minutes. I think you have the potential to become quite skilled in milonguero.

That said, even I am starting to find YOUR carping on this issue quite tedious and am considering filtering you from view. I am not a moderator and have no authority whatsoever. I can't MAKE you do anything.

But neither can you MAKE the rest of us post/ dance/ think/ etc your way either. This forum is for a HUGE pool of people around the world and they aren't all going to agree on anything. We can't even all agree on something as simple as where the leader should place his right hand, for pete's sake! You can always create your own forum for exactly what you want to see. (You'll find that its a great deal of work.) If you aren't willing to do that, you're stuck with people who may not share your view on everything because the people who ARE doing the hard work of maintaining a forum get to decide the format.

Get past it somehow before you end up with no one ever willing to discuss with you the the things you originally came here for... how to improve your tango.
 
Has anyone else noticed that WHATEVER the initial thread is about that we inevitably go through a discussion on OE vs CE and Trad vs New Music before the thread ends? Or is that just me?

Personally I like tandas. I hate the idea of dancing just one dance with anyone. And I like both types of music. Even though I dont think there is very much good nuevo music.

But I've said these things several times before *sigh*

(Just back from a fantastic evening of dancing, so nothing you guys say is going to stop me basking in the memory... )
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Very true. The last time I heard a whole tanda by a modern tango orchestra (and I mean pure tango by that, not fusion/neo/electro stuff, that tanda was by Sexteto Milonguero) here in NYC was about a year ago ( and I usually go to 2-3 milongas per week).
I think La Rubia Del Norte would be open to your ideas if you talk to her. Or have you already tried?
 
ps This whole thing about "sending a message" - well it's just BS isnt it?

"I dont like people dancing nuevo moves on YT vids - it sends out the wrong message to those attending milongas"

"I dont like people dancing to Tom Waits - it sends out the message that any music is acceptable to tango to - instead of promoting "real" tango music "

Fact is, no one can do or say anything without someone out there "misinterpreting" what they've just done.

Let's not go down that road.

Assume that most of us are adults who can make up their minds for themselves. Instead of thinking that we have to make their minds up for them.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
Ah but if you are not born in Buenos Aires.....then is it really Argentine Tango?
Can't resist this BTM!
Strangely if you're not from BsAs it is Argentine Tango, but if you're from BsAs it's just Tango. Is it the same dance? Well some of us try and some/many have their own idea. Let's just admit, it is what we make of it.

I'm in the UK and you're in Mexico so how can either of us be sure its Argentine Tango that we are dancing? And if its Golden Age music that you are expounding how can you be sure that you are dancing the same way as they did when they made the music.
and if you play La Cumparsita composed by Rodriguez in Uruguay, or Ibrahim Ozgur?
How right you are. And they played the music differently in different eras/recordings. My knowledge of the music is not extensive but here's a comparison I've just discovered. I love No Aflojes played by Angel D'Agostino with Ruben Cane singing and want to dance and feel it but listen to the same song, same orchestra but sung by Angel Vargas around 1940/42 and I have no inclination to dance it at all.

Let's hope Mario gets the unsubtle hints - it's getting boring and disruptive even though I have a degree of sympathy with some of his views. Rather like Cjj..............

And I think there are more positive ways of promoting the embrace as the one true way . . . . . . ;-)
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Can't resist this BTM!
Strangely if you're not from BsAs it is Argentine Tango, but if you're from BsAs it's just Tango.

I have a degree of sympathy with some of his views. Rather like Cjj..............

And I think there are more positive ways of promoting the embrace as the one true way . . . . . . ;-)
I think you missed a dot... ;-)

The best way to promote a particular style/ embrace/ or whatever is to dance it really well so that other people want to dance with you. Then other people who are watching will say "Hey! That guy gets all the best followers... maybe I should do what HE'S doing!" ;-)

(and yes... the irony of naming is pretty funny to me also)
 
ps This whole thing about "sending a message" - well it's just BS isnt it?

"I dont like people dancing nuevo moves on YT vids - it sends out the wrong message to those attending milongas"

"I dont like people dancing to Tom Waits - it sends out the message that any music is acceptable to tango to - instead of promoting "real" tango music "

Fact is, no one can do or say anything without someone out there "misinterpreting" what they've just done.

Let's not go down that road.

Assume that most of us are adults who can make up their minds for themselves. Instead of thinking that we have to make their minds up for them.
To that I just want to add, about the video Mario posted in a closed thread, because it is a local place.
Cellspace in SF clearly positions itself as an "alternative" venue where traditional codigos are not observed, and only a certain percentage ( the DJs usually announce upfront how much) of the music is tango music. So, at least in that particular case there is no misrepresentation, everything is directly disclosed.
One may like or not what is going on there. Personally I do not care whatsoever for that kind, but, firstly, fair is fair -- everybody is properly warned, and secondly, if somebody wants to do something like that I rather them to be in Cellspace, and not at the place I attend on the same night.
 
:spam:

...troll...

...zzzzzzzz...
Quite, Peaches!!

I mean, isn't this kind of wilful misinterpretation and twisting of other forum member's posts against the guidelines? One would hope so!

Sorry, but it is a fact that most art that is produced is mediocre.. occasionally there is brilliance... maybe I'm picky about my music full stop.

And FWIW tango remains my favourite partner dance because I fell in love with the music first.

PS Peaches, I'm sure you can be won over to Tom Waits - oh yah! :banana:
 
Has anyone else noticed that WHATEVER the initial thread is about that we inevitably go through a discussion on OE vs CE and Trad vs New Music before the thread ends? Or is that just me?

Personally I like tandas. I hate the idea of dancing just one dance with anyone. And I like both types of music. Even though I dont think there is very much good nuevo music.

But I've said these things several times before *sigh*

(Just back from a fantastic evening of dancing, so nothing you guys say is going to stop me basking in the memory... )
Absolutely.. it's degenerated into some ludicrous bun fight which perfectly reflects what's going on in some dance communities.... and is why I've not been on here so long.

The main reason I think of giving up AT is precisely because IME it's become the most ego-driven, factional, non-collective activity that I do in my spare time. It's a joke. Mind you, a friend visited weekday London milongas and said they had a great time, most people were totally up for it and would dance with strangers and take a punt on people they didn't know. However, it all has made me realise that AT is taking a backburner on my list of 'communal activities'.... oh yes.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
LOL. I was with you 110% up until the Tom Waits part! (I just can't stand Tom Waits...makes me want to slit my wrists or something.) But...yeah. All kinds of music speaks to all kinds of different people...not to mention that one person can have multiple moods. Sometimes ya just wanna groove to something else.

And, yeah, there's so much wonderful traditional AT stuff out there...and so much that isn't. LOL. I wish more DJs would play traditional songs, with traditional arrangements, by new orchestras now and again. Quintango, Quartango, etc. They're such beautiful new takes on the old classic stuff. But...sadly...I rarely (if ever) hear them played.
I agree 100%. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but Tom Waits has one of the worse voices I have ever heard. I don't have a problem with new or alternative music in principle, but it needs to sound better than my dog barking, which Tom Waits does not.

Exhibit A:

[yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lS9sMTtozZI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lS9sMTtozZI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI

 
@lightsleeper

You'll have to come down to Canterbury then and feel the love....

(Dont forget - discussion forums are hardly representative - they attract the argumentative like moths to the flame.. )
 
I agree 100%. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but Tom Waits has one of the worse voices I have ever heard. I don't have a problem with new or alternative music in principle, but it needs to sound better than my dog barking, which Tom Waits does not.

Exhibit A:

[yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lS9sMTtozZI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lS9sMTtozZI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI

I really wish you hadnt shown that vid DC because it features some truly appalling dancing. I might find myself thinking all US (festival?) dancing is like that, when it clearly isnt.

I dont much like Tom Waits either : although "A little drop of poison" is better than most.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
I really wish you hadnt shown that vid DC because it features some truly appalling dancing. I might find myself thinking all US (festival?) dancing is like that, when it clearly isnt.

I dont much like Tom Waits either : although "A little drop of poison" is better than most.
The way I'd phrase it, is that the dancing was matching the feeling of the music.

"Better than most" isn't raising the bar very high when talking about Tom Waits. Frankly, I'm surprised they can dance at all to it. The "feeling" I get from it is quite different.
 
why not just call the whole thing 'Alternative Tango'? and then set up a seperate forum for it..meanwhile, we can keep this one for Argentine Tango.
 

Subliminal

Well-Known Member
why not just call the whole thing 'Alternative Tango'? and then set up a seperate forum for it..meanwhile, we can keep this one for Argentine Tango.
Why should the forum change for one person? I haven't heard anyone else call for it.

Also, as if tango wasn't a small enough community as it is. Now you want to further subdivide it.
 
I don't think it is mandatory to participate in all the discussion on the forum. It is OK to just scroll some posts or entire threads, or if it is difficult to refrain from reading, read and then do like this::rolleyes:
;)
 
I think La Rubia Del Norte would be open to your ideas if you talk to her. Or have you already tried?
I've never heard of such a DJ in NYC, where exactly is she DJing?

At any rate I think that the situation is better in that aspect in Europe and also, as I have heard, in the not-so-traditional milongas in BA. They tend to play newer music (tango, not alternative/fusion, etc) later in the evening at those milongas.

Here's a recent, somewhat related post from a tango blog:

http://tangopilgrim.com/2010/04/dj-in-baires/#comments
 

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