Rejections

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#61
Ok, so just reflect back on the horror you felt when you read his words and "saw" his actions.

Realize that he felt the same amount of horror to her words and actions.

THAT is empathy.
 
#62
If the 'rejection' the OP speaks of happened in a studio/lesson/practice or similar type setting, it may very well have been just what the lady said and not necessarily an actual rejection.

In which case I would have to assume the OP doesn't get out much.....

Because if this happened in an 'uncontrolled' environment (such as a night club or similar venue), it's just one line out of millions.
They all mean one and the same thing: "You're not my type, go away."
You gotta get used to those......
did you read the original post?

A few months ago, I was in a milonga
Clearly, this did not happen in a nightclub, then. Milongas are tango-specific and, have pretty clear codes of etiquette (which have been addressed in numerous other threads). The lady was within her rights to refuse a dance and then offer one later, when she was available.
 
#63
Clearly, this did not happen in a nightclub, then. Milongas are tango-specific and, have pretty clear codes of etiquette (which have been addressed in numerous other threads). The lady was within her rights to refuse a dance and then offer one later, when she was available.
What might be interesting is that it seems perfectly acceptable to have a personal preference in a purely social settings such as a club, and also in a developed to its natural conclusion type of dance social setting.

It's only someplace in between, some postulated "if you are here you must dance" studio-associated setting where some would argue that a different rule would apply, where objective issues in dancing are used as an excuse to trump everything else.
 
#64
Ok, so just reflect back on the horror you felt when you read his words and "saw" his actions.

Realize that he felt the same amount of horror to her words and actions. .

Up to here I can agree with you. He may well have felt guenuinely hurt by what he perceived as a rejection.

When you consider what happens next my divergence with you grows and has not been considered in the above post.
 
#65
I suppose the real irony would've been if the two ladies talking were actually encouraging each other to bolster their confidence to ask the OP to dance...:rolleyes:
 
#66
In much the same way if she's exposing a lot of chest or thigh, she's really just asking to get a load of abuse. Yep, I can understand that. (Not!!)
Actually, I was quoting Peaches for that - as she said.

I don't think it's automatically wrong to interrupt a conversation.

I don't think it's automatically wrong to get upset by a rejection.

I do agree that the subsequent rejection - as stated - sounds ill-mannered and unjustified. And I'd like to hear more from Wadpro about why he felt it was OK for him to say that - there may have been other mitigating circumstances.

I overheard a woman saying yesterday that she'd rather sit and watch than get a bad dance. Which could be the case, non?
It's a difficult question - I think one thing that's become clear to me is that this "expectation of dance" factor varies a lot depending on location, and yes, depending on the venue and even the women in question.

So the only answer is "it depends".
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#67
Up to here I can agree with you. He may well have felt guenuinely hurt by what he perceived as a rejection.

When you consider what happens next my divergence with you grows and has not been considered in the above post.
I never stated that I agreed or even felt sympathy with his later actions... Only encouraged that our dear readers consider that his feelings and reaction was very normal... in the same way that some here lashed out at him.

When someone doesn't act the way we want them to we get upset. (whether it is him saying that to her... or us saying that to him) It is your filter that you impose on top of that reality that lets you justify your own actions while condemning others.

It only seemed odd that the lynch mob mentality was crying for him to practice empathy...
 
#68
DB the above post has not answered any of the issues raised.
You want answers and wit? :doh:

The OP asked whether it was rude for a person to defer an invitation to a dance until after she finished her conversation not whether it was acceptable for a guy to intereupt a conversation.
Fair enough.
To the question: "Is it rude for a person to defer an invitation to a dance until after she finished her conversation?", the answer is, "it depends".

Firstly, rudeness is not about what you do, it's about how you do it.

Secondly, rudeness is largely a subjective thing (like "cliqueyness"...) - it's perceived by the receiver not the giver. Very few people say "I was rude to XYZ". But XYZ will say "ABC was rude to me".

I then asked you what dance forms you had in mind that expect a lady to drop everything when asked to dance. It seemed to me you was using this, as yet unnamed dance form, as some form of justification for wadpro's subsequent action.
You need to reread my posts.
 
#69
I agree. There is no right or wrong here. She had her reasons for declining. He had his. Both were don't in a manner that someone else feels is tacky... He is judging her, and we are judging him... and round and round it goes.
You say he is judging her, we are judging him. So, my dear, he doesn't get a chance to judge his own behaviour in the midst of all this judging? For only when something is pointed out to me do I know where I went wrong.

Realize that he felt the same amount of horror to her words and actions. THAT is empathy.
No, my dear. It's called Cause and Effect. When the original crime becomes a lesser version of the one that followed.
 
#70
I never stated that I agreed or even felt sympathy with his later actions... Only encouraged that our dear readers consider that his feelings and reaction was very normal... in the same way that some here lashed out at him.
Well said - yes, that's what I've been trying to say.

It's easier to bay for blood, but I'd like to understand a bit more about the circumstances.

Then we can bay for blood :D
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#72
Ok, so just reflect back on the horror you felt when you read his words and "saw" his actions.

Realize that he felt the same amount of horror to her words and actions.

THAT is empathy.
Having empathy for the feelings someone is experienceing does not mean you have to condone the actions they take based on those feelings.

For instance, you can feel considerable empathy for a parent whose child is brutally murdered, and still expect to see the laws of justice enforced if the parent subsequently murders the child's murderer.

Having empathy for others doesn't mean you approve off them doing anythig they please because of how they feel.

Besides, the OP asked us for our opinion of the situation and whether she was justified delaying a dance. However, in retrospect, it seems he did not really want our honest opinions, but wanted validation for his own. Or perhaps he was seeking non-judging empathy. But that is not what he asked in the original post.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#73
Having empathy for other's doesn't mean you approve off them doing anythig they please because of how they feel.
Exactly. We don't need to agree with his actions, only realize that he was very upset. But how odd that we immediately felt empathy towards her but not towards him.

Besides, the OP asked us for our opinion of the situation and whether she was justified delaying a dance. However, in retrospect, it seems he did not really want our honest opinions, but wanted validation for his own. Or perhaps he was seeking non-judging empathy. But that is not what he asked in the original post.
Perhaps he just wanted to vent...
As well he only asked advice as to whether or not her reason for declining was justified. He did not ask our opinions on the rest of the situation.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#74
It only seemed odd that the lynch mob mentality was crying for him to practice empathy...
No.. we were expecting him to practice CIVILITY.

And again.. He ASKED us for our opinion.
We gave it, and he argued with our answers, continuing to uphold his conviction that she was wrong to want to finish her conversation. If he wanted to vent to a sympathetic audience, his wording of his post was very misleading.
 

CANI

Active Member
#75
Another view might be: W felt upset at having his invitation declined in favour of something he reagrded as less important than dancing. He decided that he wished to make known his values and feelings which he clearly stated and he had decided he no longer wished to dance with that person.

I dont think there is any right or wrong here. I would have been happy to wait for her or find someone else. Unfortunately I think is a case of rotten apples9ie other previous experiences) is why do we sometimes take it personally. For the same reason you wish to be asked to dance for your merit on the dance floor, and not out of any reason of generosity or friendship or as i often do when I dont know anyone at a milonga I simply ask someone who is sitting down.
Very nice perspective to add bordertangoman...
 

CANI

Active Member
#76
I never stated that I agreed or even felt sympathy with his later actions... Only encouraged that our dear readers consider that his feelings and reaction was very normal... in the same way that some here lashed out at him.

When someone doesn't act the way we want them to we get upset. (whether it is him saying that to her... or us saying that to him) It is your filter that you impose on top of that reality that lets you justify your own actions while condemning others.

It only seemed odd that the lynch mob mentality was crying for him to practice empathy...
I agree...and reading this thread was helpful as it made me see how often I am (or perceive myself to be) part of the lynch mob...it ain't pretty...thanks Larinda...
 
#77
I can see why the guy was upset... but the practical advice, which has already been delivered back up the thread at least once, is to learn to guage someone's receptiveness by observing them, and seeing if you can non-verbally attract their attention, before if not instead of a verbal invitation that puts them on the spot to decide between accepting, "rejecting" or offering a more complicated answer.

In simpler terms, if you don't like getting rejected, give people an out where they can be disinclined without it rising to the level of an overt rejection, and do the whole thing subtly and privately enough you don't feel like you've used up your one public "invitation allowance" for that opportunity and can't try someone else.
 
#78
It's easier to bay for blood, but I'd like to understand a bit more about the circumstances.

Then we can bay for blood :D
Does a mother bay for blood when she responds to the teacher's complaint by admonishing her six year old for punching his class mate in the playground? I/we responded to a question in the negative. Remember: a question is opened to any answer - in the yay or nay...don't want a nay, then don't air the question.

The "circumstances" are clear in the OP's post (unless of course he's winding us all up and sitting back over a glass and watching the fallout). His invitation for a dance was turned down. (Rightly or wrongly). He then stewed on the event until the rejecting partner came up to him and apologised in a way she thought best. (There was no mention by OP that she did it in a way that warranted his response, however). Rather than think "aw what the hell". He decided to take earlier rejection ("rejection" (???)..help me out here Freud, Jung, someone) and tossed it right back at her. No doubt making her feel as lousy as he did earlier. Who was it that said, "an eye for eye makes the all world blind". And there you have it.

I've been turned down (mainly by the the latino women) citing that they "don't dance with women". I could respond with a loud "whaaaaa...do you think I'm going to rip your bra off...you think I'm gay....". Effect. No. I smile, say my okays and walk away. Simple... and then watch them get bad dances all night. Ha, ha, ha.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#79
Why were her actions quantified by "rightly or wrongly" but his were not?

I like how her actions were stipped clean of any affections but the interpretation and retelling of his actions were vilified, embellished, and personified.

(ps... I like how you just edited your post to less vilify, embellish, and personify his actions.)
 

Dance Ads