Rejections

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
Seems pretty unemotional... to me. Could even be argued that he wished her well in her evening. I see rudeness or "big fat ego'..
(You were able to quote my post before I had time to correct the absence of the words "fail to". No bother there though.)

As I keep saying to begin with the responses were fair and constructive. However when the comment are not in agreement with his, why not reflect on those comments rather than carry on with the original line?

The only conclusion a reasonable person can come to is that he felt that his actions to the lady afterwards were right and this is with hindsight and three months to reflect. At that point I believe it is reasonable for people to give there actual view on the whole incident and quite honestly saying it is "baying for blood" is not reasonable, especially when you have agreed to the general message being conveyed.
In his original post he did not ask "Am I wrong?" He asked "Am I right?" So there is a clear bias in his mind and he was looking for validation. Of which he did not receive. If he chooses to learn from the responses here that is only up to him. Or perhaps he will be staunch in his initial reaction that she was out of line. Who knows. No one but him.

"Baying for blood" were not my words. I forget where that come in. My only point to make was that regardless of the social norms of my house vs your house... his initial reaction was quite normal and not really all that much of a cause for alarm or distress that it illicited. I may not agree with his response (or hers). But I would not condemn him for giving it. Surely we all have reacted spiteful when we felt rebuffed.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
Does a mother bay for blood when she responds to the teacher's complaint by admonishing her six year old for punching his class mate in the playground? I/we responded to a question in the negative. Remember: a question is opened to any answer - in the yay or nay...don't want a nay, then don't air the question.

The "circumstances" are clear in the OP's post (unless of course he's winding us all up and sitting back over a glass and watching the fallout). His invitation for a dance was turned down. (Rightly or wrongly). He then stewed on the event until the rejecting partner came up to him and apologised in a way she thought best. (There was no mention by OP that she did it in a way that warranted his response, however). Rather than think "aw what the hell". He decided to take earlier rejection ("rejection" (???)..help me out here Freud, Jung, someone) and tossed it right back at her. No doubt making her feel as lousy as he did earlier. Who was it that said, "an eye for eye makes the all world blind". And there you have it.

I've been turned down (mainly by the the latino women) citing that they "don't dance with women". I could respond with a loud "whaaaaa...do you think I'm going to rip your bra off...you think I'm gay....". Effect. No. I smile, say my okays and walk away. Simple... and then watch them get bad dances all night. Ha, ha, ha.
I remember watching a programme about child development. Around about three years old you need to be able to say thank you for something that you are really disappointed to receive. This is called socially well adjusted or at least not being able to do it is regarded as socially ill adjusted.

Heather; I would regard rejection as either a judgement of an observation, but the feelings that accompany it are another matter.

Of course there are strategic follwers; one friend wont dance with beginners at the start of the evening since this will make her look bad in the eyes of of other good leaders, but once she's had some opportunity to show how good she is by being very selective about who she dances with, she doesnt mind having the odd dance with a beginner.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
This thread seems to have become more about whether responses were valid and less to do with the Op's issue.

It seems to me that since this incident happened months ago and he is asking about it now, that there has probably been some long term ramification or fallout. Although he didn't specifically mention any or ask what to do about it, I feel that there may be an underlying (perhaps subconscious) motive on his part to understand why it still seems to "hang in the air" when he goes out dancing.

I am interpreting, but I think if she delayed her dance, and then he responded as he did and used a "no hard feelings" attitude, the whole thing would have blown over by now. There is SOME reason why this is still an issue for him, and I am wondering why. If there has been no fallout, why bother to bring this up? The lack of resulting problems would pretty much answer the question wouldn't it?

My guess (and yes... I'm just guessing) is that there is more going on than recalling an incident from months ago and being curious about the proper codes. I'm guessing that there is something happening in the present based on this incident from months ago, and that is the reason he is seeking feedback (or validation) of his view of the incident.

Its totally up to him of course, but maybe if he fills us in on what's going on, we can actually come up with productive comments.

Judging from the replies he has gotten to his original question just from people READING, not having the remarks directed AT them at a dance, the woman in the incident also very likely took offense and would also (judging strictly from my own experience with tango followers, mind you) have told her version of the story to all the other women whose ear she could get for 5 minutes.... or at least her closer friends.

Whether or not WE are being too harsh, that is the simple truth of a probable outcome in his OWN real life world. IF this has not occurred, and there has been no problem, then it really doesn't matter does it? But I'm guessing that he is posting because there IS an ongoing issue now and I feel his best course of action in that case would be to eat some humble pie and take the initiative to make amends.
 
I agree...and reading this thread was helpful as it made me see how often I am (or perceive myself to be) part of the lynch mob...it ain't pretty...thanks Larinda...
My typical response is, whenever I see a group of people all agreeing, to put in a contrary viewpoint.

Partly because I'm funny that way (!), but mostly because this is a discussion forum, not some hippy poetry-reading commune. Or lynch mob, for that matter.

And this is a good thread, interesting reading, so I'm glad it was started.
 

Ampster

Active Member
A few months ago, I was in a milonga and a girl rejected me to dance and her reason was a little interesting. When I asked her to dance, she told me that she was talking to her friend and after her conversartion she could dance with me. I was surprised. Anyway I came back to my sit. But after 15 mintutes, she came next to me and asked me for a dance. I told her that "Sorry but I wont dance with you because it seems you came here to talk to your friend so have a good conversation"

I think "talking to a friend" is not a good reason for rejection. Am I right?
You were wrong, and that was very rude and impudent of you.

In the AT world, no one is obligated to dance. When someone says no, move on. The reason she gave is common, sincere, and totally appropriate. She doesn't even need to give a reason. Get over it. Get used to it. Its not personal.

A milonga is for people who want to dance AT, and to mingle with friends. She made good her promise and came back for you, did she not?

By insulting her, after she made good her promise. What you have done, is that you have succeeded in giving yourself a "Reputation." Tango communities are small and very close knit. People will now know of your actions, and you will be remembered for that for a very long time to come.
 
I think my previous post will show I can't totally agree with this.
That's OK, you're entitled to your opinion, clearly wrong though it is :p

I have known people who (and have also myself) realized they were out of line in their behavior (if not their opinion which started the conflict) and sought to fix it.
Yeah, it's never quite that simple.

I just wanted to remind people that behaviour is largely subjective. Is a group of mates a clique? It depends whether you're on the inside or the outside. Is behaviour rude? It depends on your expectations and on who you ask.
 

CANI

Active Member
My typical response is, whenever I see a group of people all agreeing, to put in a contrary viewpoint.

Partly because I'm funny that way (!), but mostly because this is a discussion forum, not some hippy poetry-reading commune. Or lynch mob, for that matter.

And this is a good thread, interesting reading, so I'm glad it was started.
:D This is the only thread I've read with your comments, that I recall, and I definitely see the funny.
 
Yes, of course, even though many would consider the lady's action acceptable (provided she declined politely), I don't think anybody argue that he had the right to be upset and not wanting to dance with her after.
I could :)

Of course he had a right to be upset. He feels what he feels. We all do. Saying "Oh don't be upset" to someone who is upset is silly - it never works, does it?

He also had a perfect right to refuse a dance afterwards, and I'd argue he was correct to do so if he was still upset. Who wants to dance with someone who's angry at you?


Several people noted that at dances one could use a different approach and attitude more productively, but feelings are feelings.
Yes, exactly.

And seriously, us lot all nagging him to say "You're An Evil Person" - do you think that's helping to develop a productive attitude? Would that work on you? It sure as hell wouldn't work on me.

However, when she came and asked, instead of answering "I appreciate your asking, but sorry, I am afraid I don't feel like dancing right now" he told her where she should go and what to do.
And telling grown ups by another grown up where to go and what to do is considered very rude in most cultures. So, I can see why that kind of reaction would tick people quite a bit.
Yeah, basically.

However, really, all we're saying is "Don't refuse someone rudely".

Well, duh.
 
In the OP's defence, I don't think he has mentioned anything about not wanting a negative response, seeking validation etc. I think it was more so the response of others with their blood baying accusations and requests for more empathy. Everything else that you stated, I am in total agreement.
I'm going to call you Bay City Roller from now on, nerr :p
 
I remember watching a programme about child development. Around about three years old you need to be able to say thank you for something that you are really disappointed to receive. This is called socially well adjusted or at least not being able to do it is regarded as socially ill adjusted.
Hmm..interesting! But I think I'd rather bring my child up (no matter what) to be good and honest rather than a good hypocrite.

Of course there are strategic follwers; one friend wont dance with beginners at the start of the evening since this will make her look bad in the eyes of of other good leaders, but once she's had some opportunity to show how good she is by being very selective about who she dances with, she doesnt mind having the odd dance with a beginner.
I'll quote my father: see people as good not as god. So yup, never fell into this type of folly. And so I only care how I perform, or look or work in the eyes of those that pay me.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
A few months ago, I was in a milonga and a girl rejected me to dance and her reason was a little interesting. When I asked her to dance, she told me that she was talking to her friend and after her conversartion she could dance with me. I was surprised. Anyway I came back to my sit. But after 15 mintutes, she came next to me and asked me for a dance. I told her that "Sorry but I wont dance with you because it seems you came here to talk to your friend so have a good conversation"

I think "talking to a friend" is not a good reason for rejection. Am I right?
In my opinion, you were very wrong. The fact that she came over and asked you to dance, proved that she was not rejecting you, but rather she really was involved in a conversation that was important to her.

It's not my intention to be disrespectful, but I don't know how else to say it. Your actions came across as being rather lame and petty, and IMO you owe her an apology for your rudeness.

Sorry, but that's how I see it.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's never quite that simple.
Its not? In my example, I felt ashamed of my bad reaction to what I still think was his own innapropriate attitude and as soon as I cooled off, I sent him an apology. (which as it turned out, was exactly what he did as well)

Very simple... not at all complicated.

Hold yourself accountable and take responsibility for messes you make or add to. Its actually pretty damn simple. (not EASY, mind you, but truly quite simple)
 
or perhaps it was this...

We could spin it and demonize anyone in the story if we felt like it... And I am sure neither interpretation is accurate. His description of the incident is so bland and without malice it is hard to believe the amount of rebuke he received over it.
A man dressed as a vampire walks into a bar and spots two beautiful women chatting away.
He interrupts and asks one of them if they wish to dance with him..
The lady asks what kind of dance he does.
"Fang Tango" :doh:
 

samina

Well-Known Member
A few months ago, I was in a milonga and a girl rejected me to dance and her reason was a little interesting. When I asked her to dance, she told me that she was talking to her friend and after her conversartion she could dance with me. I was surprised. Anyway I came back to my sit. But after 15 mintutes, she came next to me and asked me for a dance. I told her that "Sorry but I wont dance with you because it seems you came here to talk to your friend so have a good conversation"

I think "talking to a friend" is not a good reason for rejection. Am I right?
based on my non-milonga dance experience, your response strikes me as extremely ungracious, and if you had retorted in that manner to me, i wouldn't be inclined to dance with you in the future. just too peevish & petulant an air... especially with AT, personally i wouldn't want to get close to that sort of attitude for the length of a tanda.

social dancing IME is a place for enjoyment, graciousness, and social sensitivity. who cares if someone feels the need to chat for some reason rather than dance. people's lives don't stop just because they're attending a social...
 

Ampster

Active Member
wadpro, just in case you missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadpro
A few months ago, I was in a milonga and a girl rejected me to dance and her reason was a little interesting. When I asked her to dance, she told me that she was talking to her friend and after her conversartion she could dance with me. I was surprised. Anyway I came back to my sit. But after 15 mintutes, she came next to me and asked me for a dance. I told her that "Sorry but I wont dance with you because it seems you came here to talk to your friend so have a good conversation"

I think "talking to a friend" is not a good reason for rejection. Am I right?
You were wrong, and that was very rude and impudent of you.

In the AT world, no one is obligated to dance. When someone says no, move on. The reason she gave is common, sincere, and totally appropriate. She doesn't even need to give a reason. Get over it. Get used to it. Its not personal.

A milonga is for people who want to dance AT, and to mingle with friends. She made good her promise and came back for you, did she not?

By insulting her, after she made good her promise. What you have done, is that you have succeeded in giving yourself a "Reputation." Tango communities are small and very close knit. People will now know of your actions, and you will be remembered for that for a very long time to come. You just vilified yourself.
 

Sylph

New Member
A few months ago, I was in a milonga and a girl rejected me to dance and her reason was a little interesting. When I asked her to dance, she told me that she was talking to her friend and after her conversartion she could dance with me. I was surprised. Anyway I came back to my sit. But after 15 mintutes, she came next to me and asked me for a dance. I told her that "Sorry but I wont dance with you because it seems you came here to talk to your friend so have a good conversation"

I think "talking to a friend" is not a good reason for rejection. Am I right?
WOW!!! I can't believe the debate that this post has sparked! Very interesting! It has also provided me with some insight into all the different personalities that we have here on DF. This is what makes this forum so interesting and ADDICTIVE.

Anyway, back to WP. I suppose there are always 2 sides to every story. And then there is the truth... I wonder if WP is reading the posts? It would be most interesting to hear his input/response at this stage - stand up and be counted!
 

CANI

Active Member
What you have done, is that you have succeeded in giving yourself a "Reputation." Tango communities are small and very close knit. People will now know of your actions, and you will be remembered for that for a very long time to come. You just vilified yourself.
Hi Ampster -- Just curious...is this real or meant to be dramatic for effect?...one situation and vilified...is that common in all of AT (bearing in mind I have no experience whatsoever with AT, so I know nothing on the subject)?
 

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