Rejections

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
#61
Vince A said:
bordertangoman said:
Twilight_Elena said:
-THEN, an unlucky guy asked me to dance. I was tired, so I rejected him as softly as I could.
-THEN (and here's the amazingly unlucky part) my salsa teacher asked me to dance AGAIN, right after that guy. :shock: :shock: :shock: How could I possibly turn him down??? I didn't even want to! I could dance with him for an hour and feel lighter than a feather!
Twilight Elena
If you behaved like this to me I wouldn't EVER ask you to dance. It has happened to me and I don't like being treated this way. Fine for you to have your favourites, but if you discriminat against me this way then I will discriminate back.
Ditto . . . if I saw that . . . I'd never dance w/you either :!:
BTM and Vince's replies occured to me when I first read this. I'd say it's not polite to turn down one request and then immediately accept the next one during the same song. You are asking for trouble.

And what do you do regarding the second request? Explain to the guy you just turned another person down and you would feel bad if you accepted his invite, but if you ask me later I'll be happy to then.
 

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
#62
sync said:
cl5814 said:
It should just encourage you to quickly improve your dancing so that you are an experienced leader.
That's how I see it.

I can understand why beginning followers don't want to dance with beginning leaders. Beginning leaders tend to be much clumsier and slower to learn. Then in our group lessons, the instructions tend to be rushed and they have you practice to music that is too fast.
I am very thankful for all the followers that put up with my newness at the very beginning. I see some follows going through this now with aome of the new guys on the floor, and I encourage them to continue letting these new leads practice.

MacMoto's understanding of this is right on! :D
 

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
#63
newbie said:
bordertangoman said:
Twilight_Elena said:
-THEN, an unlucky guy asked me to dance. I was tired, so I rejected him as softly as I could.
-THEN (and here's the amazingly unlucky part) my salsa teacher asked me to dance AGAIN, right after that guy. :shock: :shock: :shock: How could I possibly turn him down??? I didn't even want to! I could dance with him for an hour and feel lighter than a feather!
Twilight Elena
If you behaved like this to me I wouldn't EVER ask you to dance. It has happened to me and I don't like being treated this way. Fine for you to have your favourites, but if you discriminat against me this way then I will discriminate back.
Probably she's meaning that the teacher's invitation was the next invitation after the guy's invitation, but that this teacher's invitation occurred several minutes after the guy's one (once she had sat and rested for a while), not seconds after. Otherwise the approaching teacher would have noticed the rejection, would have understood that she was tired and would not have invited her.
And of course, no woman would accept an invitation just seconds after having refused one.
:shock: :lol: I've seen it happen, and it has happened to me, too.
 

DancePoet

Well-Known Member
#64
cl5814 said:
newbie said:
bordertangoman said:
newbie said:
bordertangoman said:
Twilight_Elena said:
-THEN, an unlucky guy asked me to dance. I was tired, so I rejected him as softly as I could.
-THEN (and here's the amazingly unlucky part) my salsa teacher asked me to dance AGAIN, right after that guy. :shock: :shock: :shock: How could I possibly turn him down??? I didn't even want to! I could dance with him for an hour and feel lighter than a feather!
Twilight Elena
If you behaved like this to me I wouldn't EVER ask you to dance. It has happened to me and I don't like being treated this way. Fine for you to have your favourites, but if you discriminat against me this way then I will discriminate back.
Probably she's meaning that the teacher's invitation was the next invitation after the guy's invitation, but that this teacher's invitation occurred several minutes after the guy's one (once she had sat and rested for a while), not seconds after. Otherwise the approaching teacher would have noticed the rejection, would have understood that she was tired and would not have invited her.
And of course, no woman would accept an invitation just seconds after having refused one.
Sorry this is not what happens in my experience. Some 'ladies' ( I use the term advisedly) won't even wait for the song to end.
Well, this might become a poll:
"Ladies, would you accept a teacher's invitation just seconds after declining another one by some random guy?"
Depends. If that would be the only time that i would get to dance with my teacher for the night, i would accept. If i knew that he will ask me again later, then i would kindly say no and sit out that song.
I believe the teacher would understand and respect your rejection, and likely come back later, particularly if you invited the teacher to do such.
 
#65
newbie said:
Well, this might become a poll:
"Ladies, would you accept a teacher's invitation just seconds after declining another one by some random guy?"
From what I've seen, it happens quite often. It certainly doesn't feel good to be the "random guy", but unfortunately the only solution for the guy is to stop being offended by the rejection and move on. If you look at it from the lady's prospective, not too many of them would want to miss out on their best dance of the evening. If the etiquette requires them to sit out just because they turned down someone else earlier, well you can guess how much chance the etiquette has. Some ladies would ask the people they turned down earlier to dance, and in my mind that makes up for any perceived etiquette breach.

As for the ladies who only want to dance with the best leaders, I put them in the same category as the guys who only want to dance with the youngest and prettiest. Just ignore them.
 
#66
Absolutely, you do NOT accept another man's invitation to dance, seconds after refusing another man's invitation, regardless of the rank, social status, or desirability of the second invitation. This is an iron-clad rule, and I invoke the sainted Emily Post on this one. The only exception to this is if your first refusal was because the first man's behavior was so obnoxious (drunk, physically abusive, etc.) as to invoke the ultimate social censure.

I have done this. The first time I refused my teacher, Felix, because seconds before I had told another man that I was tired and needed to sit out, he was, to say the least, startled, because he's one of the most sought after partners for social dancing in Los Angeles, and he knows it. But he respected by ethics on this one, and came back a few minutes later to claim his dance.

This has happened a few other times with other teachers. No, they are not usually refused, and they KNOW that women frequently snub other men to dance with them. But they have always respected my refusal on these grounds, and I can't recall a single one who did not come back a few dances later to claim the postponed dance.

I stick to my guns on this, even if it means that the party ends before I get my dance with Mr. To Die For Instructor.

And I've been on the other end of this equation, and I know. It slices to watch a man dance with another woman seconds after telling you he was tired and wanted to sit this one out. Golden Rule, Ladies.

Renee
 

Vin

New Member
#67
Some guys are way too sensitive about this issue.
If a girl turns me down and then goes off to dance with a local salsa celeb I do not take it personally, and I shouldn't it is just how the world works.

If a girl makes a habit of turning me down alot I will just ask someone else and tend to make my offers to her more scarce.

There are women I dance with 3-4 times a night, there are others who I might ask to dance once a month. There are also some levels in between.

Guys if the women aren't appreciating their dances with you, guess what,you have to make them appreciate those dances with you by asking them less often.

Trust me guys, once a follow understands that you could "take her or leave her" whatever perceived power she has to reject you is gone.
 

Vince A

Active Member
#69
ReneeJoan said:
And I've been on the other end of this equation, and I know. It slices to watch a man dance with another woman seconds after telling you he was tired and wanted to sit this one out. Golden Rule, Ladies.
I'm guilty of being one of those men . . . however, the dance was a very special woman . . . Carolyn . . . and she has come to me, right after I've danced several songs with other ladies, AND right after I have just turned down someone, saying, "Sorry, I just danced three in a row . . . I need a one-song break."

When Carolyn comes over and grabs my hand . . . I'll defintely go to the dance floor, RIGHT NOW, with her . . . cause I could care less about what another woman thinks of me when I am with Carolyn!

Sorry . . . that's who I am!!!
 
#70
Well, Vince, since confession is good for the soul, I, too, have one special man who, if I saw him, sends every ethic, every rule, every last milligram of human decency out the window. I'm dancing with him because once he enters the room, there are no other men there to dance with. Only him.

:wink:

Renee
 

youngsta

Active Member
#74
ReneeJoan said:
Well, Vince, since confession is good for the soul, I, too, have one special man who, if I saw him, sends every ethic, every rule, every last milligram of human decency out the window. I'm dancing with him because once he enters the room, there are no other men there to dance with. Only him.

:wink:

Renee
People shouldn't feel guilty for feeling like that. I believe TE should do whatever she feels like doing. It's HER time and money, nobody should be made to feel guilty about their dance preferences. If someone else doesn't like it so be it, move on.
 
#75
I really think it's all about perception. Some people focus on the positives in life and others on the negatives. Yes, beginners may not get many dances from people more advanced than they, but I doubt very much that if you ask the right kind of beginner (intermediate or advanced) followers that you will be rejected much. Beginning leaders also choose WHO they want to dance with, too. Ask yourself, "Are YOU looking for just the dance or is there another motive?" If it's just for the dance and she rejects you, it really shouldn't matter and it shouldn't feel THAT bad. However, if you think she's hot and you want to dance with her and she turns you down flat, it's kinda your tough luck, because of your hidden agenda.

However, I always say if you are really sensitive to rejection, then check out the person and how she interacts with others before you ask her to dance and not just by how pretty or attractive she is. Does she act in a friendly, mean or obnoxious way towards others? Is she smiling or frowning, looks happy or sad, friendly or mean? Or, do you get a good vibe from this person? Think of your success ratio. If she is a beginner, smiling, looks friendly, standing by the dance floor waiting to dance or moving around looks like she wants to dance, your success ratio will be high or higher. If she is standing with other girls, talking, busy, looks arrogant, not smiling or seems unhappy, then your success ratio is pretty low, wouldn't you think?

In my Salsa scene, yes there are some arrogant, mean girls out there who think they are something else just because they have been dancing for a year or two and are in a troupe and won't dance with anyone except good dancers or people in their cliques. I've heard from plenty of male friends that is the case even if they have been dancing for sometime and are decent dancers. So, it isn't about the dancer being a beginner or what. It's mostly, about that persons attitude or over-blown ego. But, why should you care about these pseudo-primadonnas anyways. It's all perspective in the end. They may impress beginners, but to the more advanced and more experienced dancers, they are just hiding behind a wall of insecurity and deep down they know they are not truly great dancers themselves. Make friends with nice people who you may have a connection with and have fun out there. Classes are the best ways to make new friends and to see who you connect with while learning to dance better. If your interpersonal or people skills aren't that great, then pick up some books and relearn them. If you are not having fun out there making new friends to dance with, then there is definitely something not right and you have to rethink your perspective and rework your strategy.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#77
DancePoet said:
Vince A said:
bordertangoman said:
Twilight_Elena said:
-THEN, an unlucky guy asked me to dance. I was tired, so I rejected him as softly as I could.
-THEN (and here's the amazingly unlucky part) my salsa teacher asked me to dance AGAIN, right after that guy. :shock: :shock: :shock: How could I possibly turn him down??? I didn't even want to! I could dance with him for an hour and feel lighter than a feather!
Twilight Elena
If you behaved like this to me I wouldn't EVER ask you to dance. It has happened to me and I don't like being treated this way. Fine for you to have your favourites, but if you discriminat against me this way then I will discriminate back.
Ditto . . . if I saw that . . . I'd never dance w/you either :!:
BTM and Vince's replies occured to me when I first read this. I'd say it's not polite to turn down one request and then immediately accept the next one during the same song. You are asking for trouble.

And what do you do regarding the second request? Explain to the guy you just turned another person down and you would feel bad if you accepted his invite, but if you ask me later I'll be happy to then.
This is called chivalry
:)
 
#78
bordertangoman said:
DancePoet said:
Vince A said:
bordertangoman said:
Twilight_Elena said:
-THEN, an unlucky guy asked me to dance. I was tired, so I rejected him as softly as I could.
-THEN (and here's the amazingly unlucky part) my salsa teacher asked me to dance AGAIN, right after that guy. :shock: :shock: :shock: How could I possibly turn him down??? I didn't even want to! I could dance with him for an hour and feel lighter than a feather!
Twilight Elena
If you behaved like this to me I wouldn't EVER ask you to dance. It has happened to me and I don't like being treated this way. Fine for you to have your favourites, but if you discriminat against me this way then I will discriminate back.
Ditto . . . if I saw that . . . I'd never dance w/you either :!:
BTM and Vince's replies occured to me when I first read this. I'd say it's not polite to turn down one request and then immediately accept the next one during the same song. You are asking for trouble.

And what do you do regarding the second request? Explain to the guy you just turned another person down and you would feel bad if you accepted his invite, but if you ask me later I'll be happy to then.
This is called chivalry
:)
And there are so few knights in shining armor these days...
 
#79
SalsaAmore said:
... Beginning leaders also choose WHO they want to dance with, too. Ask yourself, "Are YOU looking for just the dance or is there another motive?" If it's just for the dance and she rejects you, it really shouldn't matter and it shouldn't feel THAT bad. However, if you think she's hot and you want to dance with her and she turns you down flat, it's kinda your tough luck, because of your hidden agenda...
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

This is SO true in my scene. Usually, what happens is the beginner lead focuses in on one of the advanced level attractive girls for the whole evening. Even though the object of his affection dances with him politely repeatedly, by the end of the evening you can tell she's a little tired of all the attention. She hasn't gotten to dance with everyone she wanted to.

In another post I wrote that the guys in my scene are dissappointed at their lack of dating success with the girls here. They never make the connection that this type of behavior is noticed and frowned upon by all the girls.
:doh:
 

Vin

New Member
#80
aimerrouge said:
SalsaAmore said:
... Beginning leaders also choose WHO they want to dance with, too. Ask yourself, "Are YOU looking for just the dance or is there another motive?" If it's just for the dance and she rejects you, it really shouldn't matter and it shouldn't feel THAT bad. However, if you think she's hot and you want to dance with her and she turns you down flat, it's kinda your tough luck, because of your hidden agenda...
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

This is SO true in my scene. Usually, what happens is the beginner lead focuses in on one of the advanced level attractive girls for the whole evening. Even though the object of his affection dances with him politely repeatedly, by the end of the evening you can tell she's a little tired of all the attention. She hasn't gotten to dance with everyone she wanted to.

In another post I wrote that the guys in my scene are dissappointed at their lack of dating success with the girls here. They never make the connection that this type of behavior is noticed and frowned upon by all the girls.
:doh:
Wow, the follows actually give them that much time. Here the ettiquete is one dance, two in a row if you know each other. 3 in a row if if you know each other and there aren't that many people out. Any more than that and dance couple.
 

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