Rejections

luh

Active Member
great i finally found it again.
at least for swing dancing the following etiquette is supposed to be.

Asking for a dance


Although traditionally a lead asks a follow for a dance, followers are encouraged to do the same. The person may either accept or reject the dance request. If the person rejects the dance, whether they might not feel like dancing or are reserving a dance for someone else, or they might be tired or just shy, thank the person anyway and ask someone else to dance. It is considered rude to decline an offer for a dance and then dance the song with another person -- unless you mention that you had the dance reserved and promise a later dance to the asker. To begin the dance, the lead should escort the follow onto the dance floor, with an arm behind the follow's back (though this is done less and less, and not at all in many scenes).
source http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Swing_Dancing#Etiquette

luh
 

Vin

New Member
luh said:
Vin said:
Guys, imagine a great song comes on, some of your favorite partners are in the club. Just as you are about half way to one of your favorite partners one of your least favorite people to dance with intercepts you and asks you to dance. Your socially acceptable options:
say yes,
say no and sit out the song.
Now imagine that 5-10 times a night everytime you go out and that is what some of the ladies go through.
I'd love that to happen to me.Girls never ask over here. why not? is it not allowed in europe in lindy that you ask the lead?

i mean it's up to the follow, to say no and ask the other one for a dance. But it's just not part of the etiquette, and i wouldn't like it. There are rules, but not everybody is going to be that nice and go with the rules. I do. And i think it's just fair. These rules aren't made to break your heart. If you wanna break them, break them, if you don't don't. But often people will think of you as unpolite.
But don't understand me wrong, saying no is completely ok to me. Just not in the situation of saying one time no in a song, and in the same song yes to another one.
There is one exception to this rule in the etiquette though.
If you have promised this dance to another dancer, than it's okay to say no to one person and dance with another person in one song.
I kind of start repeating myself - so i better sh*t up.

luh
Luh, isn't there one person that you really dislike dancing with? Imagine her coming up and asking you to dance when you have already decided to ask another person. I have a hard time believing you would truly enjoy this.
 
luh said:
I'd love that to happen to me.Girls never ask over here. why not? is it not allowed in europe in lindy that you ask the lead?
"Europe" is not all the same. Here (Stockholm, Sweden) women ask a lot. I ask a lot. Just sitting and waiting would drive me crazy. These kind of things are different in different countries, different parts of the country, they can differ between different dance communities...
 

luh

Active Member
Vin said:
Luh, isn't there one person that you really dislike dancing with? Imagine her coming up and asking you to dance when you have already decided to ask another person. I have a hard time believing you would truly enjoy this.
actually there are. And there probably always will. But the person i'm thinking of i don't like to dance with, happens to be because, she was so darn arrogant when i was a beginner.
She'd never ask me
And even if you have a hard time believing it, I'd dance with her.
I try to dance with all follows from time to time, some more some less, but i dance with everybody, except she was (in this case) mean. But I learned something over there. Normally we guys were supposed to ask. And it was a great honor for us, if a follow asks for a dance. you never reject those dances (except you might broke your leg just before or something i don't know really bad happens)
And I try to be polite and keep the etiquette always in mind.
I think politeness in dancing is kind of cool, so i do it. And it works out for me. That followers ask me over here hasn't happened, but if i won't reject it.
That's how i work :D
luh
 

luh

Active Member
blue said:
luh said:
I'd love that to happen to me.Girls never ask over here. why not? is it not allowed in Europe in lindy that you ask the lead?
"Europe" is not all the same. Here (Stockholm, Sweden) women ask a lot. I ask a lot. Just sitting and waiting would drive me crazy. These kind of things are different in different countries, different parts of the country, they can differ between different dance communities...
sorry, didn't want to generalize it.
I just haven't been asked for a dance since I'm over here. But that just might as well be because I'm totally new to this scene here. Lets wait and see. I'm soooooooooo looking forward to the dance on Friday and the one on Saturday too. I hope I'm not too sore or anything like that.:D
luh
 

Sagitta

Well-Known Member
Twilight_Elena said:
I've been in that situation one too many times, and that night (that damned night that everyone seems to be gasping about) I was tired of it. I wanted to dance with my favourites, and that's that. I don't think that makes me the evil overlord here. I think every lady has that right.
Similarly, guys have the right to ask whoever they want. Do you see the ladies complaining?: "Oh, he NEVER asks ME!" I haven't seen very much of that.

Twilight Elena
I have heard ladies say that very thing. TE.
 
luh said:
I just haven't been asked for a dance since I'm over here. But that just might as well be because I'm totally new to this scene here.
Could well be. If you are new to the scene + a lot younger than the rest of the crowd, maybe you've got to be the asker until they realise you are a serious dancer. Personally I feel a bit weird about asking a much younger guy to dance; and if he doesn't like dancing with me, I feel like "he thinks I am a dirty old lady". :oops: I don't know if I am typical or not, but if others are like me it might pass when they've seen that you are in it for the dancing.
 

luh

Active Member
blue said:
luh said:
I just haven't been asked for a dance since I'm over here. But that just might as well be because I'm totally new to this scene here.
Could well be. If you are new to the scene + a lot younger than the rest of the crowd, maybe you've got to be the asker until they realise you are a serious dancer. Personally I feel a bit weird about asking a much younger guy to dance; and if he doesn't like dancing with me, I feel like "he thinks I am a dirty old lady". :oops: I don't know if I am typical or not, but if others are like me it might pass when they've seen that you are in it for the dancing.
ic
Yeah that could be too. I'd never think that. I have myself no problem dancing with older people. I hope they'll see that I'm a serious dancer. I really love dancing. I hope I'm gonna be accepted soon in the scene. Always tough to be the only young, and new person. :oops:
luh
 
I sometimes get a funny vibe from younger men -- more like this look of absolute terror -- like I'm Mrs. Robinson or something. I usually just ignore it and try to be as encouraging and friendly as possible (and turn down the flirtation level to where I won't frighten then).

One quick way to make friends when you're a newcomer is to hang out near the snack tables. It's a good opportunity to strike up a conversation with someone, either male or female. If it's (for me) a man, then maybe he'll ask me to dance, or if I feel he's receptive, I'll ask him. If it's a woman, she may introduce you to her friends, which is another way to get known. Once a few people know you and give you a chance to "strut your stuff," your dance frequency usually picks up. For me, it usually takes about a month of going to a new venue to make enough friends to where I have a nice group of "regulars" to dance with.

Renee
 

luh

Active Member
ReneeJoan said:
I sometimes get a funny vibe from younger men -- more like this look of absolute terror -- like I'm Mrs. Robinson or something. I usually just ignore it and try to be as encouraging and friendly as possible (and turn down the flirtation level to where I won't frighten then).

Renee
:lol:
i hope i don't make my partners feel like Mrs. Robinson. :wink:

As said, I normally dance with older partners. (somehow there is no other choice) and there is always a good chance to get a 'way' older partner, because with 16 -- 30(which i wouldn't call old), it's still almost the double of my age.

luh
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
I get asked to dance very little, which means I have to go begging if I want to dance. The other night at the country dance, a song came on that's west coastable, but a little odd and fast. I asked this guy to dance because he looked like a pretty decent dancer and there aren't many wc'ers at this dance. He crinkles his face and says "not to this one!" Ok, fine. "Another one," I say, and walk away. At this point, I'm not going to beg. I figure, if he's a gentleman he'll come get me for a dance later. Does he? No. So, screw him. It just pisses me off.

Sorry, bitter rant over!
 

Vin

New Member
Sagitta said:
Twilight_Elena said:
I've been in that situation one too many times, and that night (that damned night that everyone seems to be gasping about) I was tired of it. I wanted to dance with my favourites, and that's that. I don't think that makes me the evil overlord here. I think every lady has that right.
Similarly, guys have the right to ask whoever they want. Do you see the ladies complaining?: "Oh, he NEVER asks ME!" I haven't seen very much of that.

Twilight Elena
I have heard ladies say that very thing. TE.
I have to agree that I have heard this to. Interestingly enough the worst offenders are often the ones I hear complaining. Hmm, what a coincidence.
 
Part of this is that it is social, and there are informal rules to social behavior.
Some people are good at it and some are not. I used to be awful at it. Now I'm better than I used to be. We can and should be polite, courteous, ask people to dance, accept invitations, but this does not change the underlying social reality. The darn pecking order, if you will. It exists, good or not, and needs to be dealt with, one way or another.

EDIT: No, not the pecking order, but just general social interaction. Some people are too needy and so people shy away. Some people are overbearing, other people are only into themselves and so forth. Some people make other people feel very uncomfortable and it's just the way that is. We can change some of that. Personally I'm making a conscious effort to
be more welcoming in my own scene. But it also requires some effort on the part of people left out because politeness and courtesy, welcoming newcomers, only goes so far.

Anyway. :wink:
 
Pacion said:
Huey, I haven't read this whole thread, therefore please forgive me if someone has already asked this question, or you have answered.

Q - Have you yourself ever turned down a dance when asked?
Pacion,

Yes, I have.

I remember once I turned someone down, and I think the girl was a bit upset. It was when I was a beginner and I was sure she was very good, and just couldn't deal with leading someone of that standard.

Nowadays I think I use eye contact to avoid people who I think might want to dance with me who I don't really want to dance with. If they actually ask me, I would say yes, and try to enjoy it, but I would prefer to find someone I really feel a good connection with in the first place. I guess that women use eye contact in the same way, and perhaps I should pay attention to this when thinking about asking people.
 
Pacion said:
Huey, 9/10 is a great success rate. I don't know of anyone, lead or follow, who asks others to dance and has such a success rate. I think even Johnny Vazquez, Frankie Martinez and James Cobo (quite popular amongst the ladies in salsa from what I hear :wink: ) gets a "No thanks" from time to time :wink:
Actually, I think it's more like 8/10. Perhaps I was exaggerating to make myself feel better. But it's reassuring to know that top dancers get turned down too :wink:
 

Twilight_Elena

Well-Known Member
Sagitta said:
Twilight_Elena said:
I've been in that situation one too many times, and that night (that damned night that everyone seems to be gasping about) I was tired of it. I wanted to dance with my favourites, and that's that. I don't think that makes me the evil overlord here. I think every lady has that right.
Similarly, guys have the right to ask whoever they want. Do you see the ladies complaining?: "Oh, he NEVER asks ME!" I haven't seen very much of that.

Twilight Elena
I have heard ladies say that very thing. TE.
Really? :oops: We ladies can whine, I suppose...

Twilight Elena
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
Twilight_Elena said:
... I don't think that makes me the evil overlord here. I think every lady has that right.
Similarly, guys have the right to ask whoever they want. Do you see the ladies complaining?: "Oh, he NEVER asks ME!" I haven't seen very much of that.

Twilight Elena
Dear Twilight Elena here's some guidelines on how to be an Evil Empress :wink: :lol: :wink:


http://nift.firedrake.org/EEmpress.htm#Empress
 
Twilight_Elena said:
Vin said:
Guys, imagine a great song comes on, some of your favorite partners are in the club. Just as you are about half way to one of your favorite partners one of your least favorite people to dance with intercepts you and asks you to dance. Your socially acceptable options:
say yes,
say no and sit out the song.
Now imagine that 5-10 times a night everytime you go out and that is what some of the ladies go through.

As guys we rarely are in the power to outright reject women, but we are rejecting women all the time by NOT asking them to dance. We have that power.

Guys: Cut the ladies some slack.

Ladies: Say yes, say no, whatever you want, realize that if if you turn down guys enough than after a while they will stop asking you to dance.

yes some ladies have a chip on there shoulders but if I ask a woman to dance and most of the time she says yes than an occasional turn down is not going to hurt my feelings.

There is one girl in my scene I dance with quite a bit, this sort of attitude in the scene has her feeling guilty everytime she says no to people. I actually had to tell her that we dance enough and that by now we are beyond that. This is a girl that may reject me every 10th or so. Come on what do I expect that she say yes everytime. I wouldn't even expect that success rate from my girlfriend.
Thank you, Vin, for that lovely POV. I think that both men and women have a responsibility here. Ladies shouldn't be, well, nasty - and I don't mean accepting every dance, that's ridiculous! We ladies should just try to follow some very basic rules. But the example Vin gave us is a striking one. I've been in that situation one too many times, and that night (that damned night that everyone seems to be gasping about) I was tired of it. I wanted to dance with my favourites, and that's that. I don't think that makes me the evil overlord here. I think every lady has that right.
Similarly, guys have the right to ask whoever they want. Do you see the ladies complaining?: "Oh, he NEVER asks ME!" I haven't seen very much of that.

Twilight Elena
I agree with Vin. While it doesn't feel good to be turned down, especially the way most girls seem to do it. You should always try to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. If a girl turns you down several times, get the hint and don't ask her anymore. It doesn't matter what her reasons are and she's actually doing you a favor. Would you rather her actually say "i don't enjoy dancing with you" or even actually say yes and dance with you. If she does, you get out there and realize that is the last place on earth she wants to be. I've had that happen and it is a horrible feeling to be "stuck" there.

TE, hang in there and don't get discouraged. My advice is to dance with who you want to and as politely as possible turn down those who you don't. Yes you can use dancing with other people as a "growing" experience, but that is your choice. If you constantly dance with people you don't enjoy dancing with, you will eventually stop enjoying dancing and will quit. Don't do that.

Yes, if I see a girl reject a guy for a dance, unless I know her I probably won't go right up and ask her to dance. Not because I think she is a bad person, but because not knowing why she said no, I figure my chances aren't that good either. At the same time, I don't try to judge the girl or "get her back" for rejecting other guys. If I want to ask her to dance I will or if she asks me I will. I've had a few experiences with this recently.

One, I see a girl I'd danced with a few weeks ago, get up and start walking across the club toward me. On the way, a good looking latino guy stops her and I'm sure asked her to dance with him. She says something to him and then proceeds to walk on over to me and ask me to dance. Did I say yes to her...of course!

Another girl came with a friend and was sitting at my table. At least 15 guys came up to her and asked her to dance all she would do was shake her head no to each of them. I was the only one she would dance with the whole time she was there. For whatever reason, she wasn't comfortable dancing with guys she didn't know. Maybe she had a bad experience recently or wasn't comfortable with her dancing skills. She said she had a good time and wanted me to teach her more...so maybe next time for the other guys.
 

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