Some thoughs about why to dance and compete?

[standardgirl]

Me: It feels so good when you place or just make it to finals or semis after working SO HARD for a LONG period of time. It makes me cry, and so touched everytime when this happens. I get so happy. It's really hard to describe it in words, but this is why I want to work so hard on my dancing and compete in pro/am.

My teacher: But how long does that happiness last? a day? a week? or not even that? If you don't enjoy the process of getting there, then there's no point. you shouldn't be dancing/competing if that's the case.

This conversation makes me think about lots of stuff that I have done in my life.....do I really enjoy doing them? or is it for something else? I really don't know.....and I mean, dancing is fun, but I truely haven't enjoyed myself a lot at socials lately. I feel like I am not able to dance the way I want at socials with socail dancers, and something just doesn't feel right. During my lessons, there are of course a lot of hard works. It was fun at the beginning when I was doing american style social dancing, but now, there are just so many techiques in standard and latin. I just have to do the same thing over and over to be good at them. Before, I get so happy at socials when a guy leads me through a move I don't know and I do it right. Now, if that every happens (I can still follow the lead), I then start thinking if I have my foot placements (toe/heel) and all the other details right. (I would rather actually know the details) I don't feel that my lessons are "fun." But I still want to dance and compete, for the reason I said before. Is this really wrong? anyone?

 

[pygmalion]

Sounds like you're doing some soul searching. :? Let me do some, too. Then I'll come back and reply. 8)

 

[BeefHero]

Good topic.

We, as dancers, are always looking for that moment of glory on the dance floor, especially when we make recalls or get high placings. Then we start to push ourselves harder and harder to squeeze out that last bit to make us better. I can understand why lessons are no longer fun for you. The reason is that everything becomes so technical and detailed and it kills the fun of it. I have exactly the same problem right now :? .

I have the same problem with social dancers, too, especially those who have not had proper trainings. Last Friday I danced tango with this girl I know, and I just couldn't get her to do things right- not even like the basic walks... I was kinda bummed after the dance.

I think what you want to do is loosen up when you social dance. "Free your mind" Don't worry about your foot placing, body orientation, or arms. Most of all, don't worry about looking ugly. Just do whatever your body wants to do. I think that might help getting the fun of it back.

 

[DancePoet]

"Why to dance and compete", could be answered in many ways.

I dance for the joy discovered when feelings flow from motion and music. This can occur if you don't compete, but competition for me helps give me a goal to improve. It sets a specific point in time to focus on improving. Performances can do this, too. I have a friend of mine that doesn't compete, but instead uses performances as his point in time to work towards the improvement of his technique. For me just letting loose at a social dance is ok, and I enjoy finding creative ways to go beyond the basic patterns, but I prefer to have the motion of the body technically correct which can then enhance the feelings flowing from hearing the music, and then real beauty in all it variety of forms, can be achieved whether or not someone is watching.

 

[Kitty]

It is an interesting topic,
many of competitors are probably doing it for the same reasons as you do.
But my partner and I just like dancing and want to improve. My partner's attitude is amazing: he completely doesn't care in which level to dance and what placement to get. It doesn't make him feel better in any way. The only 2 things that make him satisfied and happy are good dancing and improvement. And nice shapes when I let him do them.

I have to admit that couple of times I wanted to practice a lot because I wanted to prove someone (different people at different times actually) that I can become a good dancer.

 

[dancin_feet]

I don't compete, but I can see where you are coming from with lessons vs social dancing.

A lot of people stop going to socials at our studio once they get to a certain level because they don't get the "practice" to make it worth their while. I see it differently. While I love the technique, etc that makes me a better dancer, I also love the simplicity of moving to music. At a social I don't care if I'm basicing the whole song with a beginner. To me it is fun and challenging because I dance to the level of the person I am dancing with, not flat out fully techniqued all the time. I can see how it would be frustrating if that is how you look at socials, but I just see them as fun and a way to "socialise" with other people who share a common interest.

As others improve, my dancing with them also bumps up a notch or two because to me social partner dancing is dancing with someone, not full on practice. That is reserved for my private lessons and any mini comps that the studio puts on. Yes, I love the rush of getting a placing, but I'm primarily there to have a good time, not to win.

Maybe this is the reason I don't compete on the "circuit", I don't need to be full on all the time. People who compete probably need this edge to get them where they want to be.

 

[hopelessly_addicted]

I don't compete, but I can see where you are coming from with lessons vs social dancing.

A lot of people stop going to socials at our studio once they get to a certain level because they don't get the "practice" to make it worth their while. I see it differently. While I love the technique, etc that makes me a better dancer, I also love the simplicity of moving to music. At a social I don't care if I'm basicing the whole song with a beginner. To me it is fun and challenging because I dance to the level of the person I am dancing with, not flat out fully techniqued all the time. I can see how it would be frustrating if that is how you look at socials, but I just see them as fun and a way to "socialise" with other people who share a common interest.

As others improve, my dancing with them also bumps up a notch or two because to me social partner dancing is dancing with someone, not full on practice. That is reserved for my private lessons and any mini comps that the studio puts on. Yes, I love the rush of getting a placing, but I'm primarily there to have a good time, not to win.

Maybe this is the reason I don't compete on the "circuit", I don't need to be full on all the time. People who compete probably need this edge to get them where they want to be.

Very interesting discussion going on here... lately, I've been wondering a lot on technique and social dancing. I haven't properly received any classes at any ballroom studio, so this question might sound really dumb, but I'll ask anyways! (my question here is somewhat related to what I've said under "my favourite dancing theory") In what way do you dance differently in socials compared to classes? Do you think that your technique can be affected (positively or negatively) by dancing differently in socials(on regular basis)?

 

[Chris Stratton]

In what way do you dance differently in socials compared to classes?

Well the big thing would be that in most classes, there is a clear expectation of what material you will dance, with very little room for individual variation. In a social there would ideally be complete freedom, but in fact there is only freedom within the available technique - if most of practice has been to fixed routines, then the fundamental technical skill of social dancing is often found lacking.

Ballroom competitors seem to be split evenly between those who can easily deal with varied material, and those whose dancing is severly degraded when going off routine, such as would have to happen when dancing with an unfamiliar partner.

 

[dancin_feet]

Very interesting discussion going on here... lately, I've been wondering a lot on technique and social dancing. I haven't properly received any classes at any ballroom studio, so this question might sound really dumb, but I'll ask anyways! (my question here is somewhat related to what I've said under "my favourite dancing theory") In what way do you dance differently in socials compared to classes? Do you think that your technique can be affected (positively or negatively) by dancing differently in socials(on regular basis)?

Again I can only comment from my personal point of view, but to me, technique is not something that is necessary to social dance. Sure you need it to compete, exams, performance, etc, but what fun would that be, always pressuring yourself to do better? No wonder people burn out and get frustrated with themselves. They've lost touch with the "fun" aspect of dancing, which to me is just moving to music with another person. I usually don't use much technique when dancing socially, unless of course the person I am dancing with does.

If you really HAVE to see social dancing as practice, what about practicing your following skills or getting figures so ingrained in your psyche that you don't even have to think about it anymore? I don't see my technique suffering because I enjoy social dancing. There is a time and place for everything, and a social is not the time or the place to be getting frustrated because you can't practice full on technique every dance. It's social! Loosen up and have fun. I enjoy my dancing a lot more because of socials, and because I'm relaxed, I find I can more easily accept my own flaws and shortcomings in technique. That way I can work on them without frustration, which actually helps to pick up technique faster (to me). 8)

 

[Chris Stratton]

but to me, technique is not something that is necessary to social dance

I assume then, that something like international foxtrot is not on your list of social dance forms...

I personally happen to think it's a great social dance, but like many other activities requires a moderate investment in skills.

 

[dancin_feet]

but to me, technique is not something that is necessary to social dance

I assume then, that something like international foxtrot is not on your list of social dance forms...

I personally happen to think it's a great social dance, but like many other activities requires a moderate investment in skills.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "International Foxtrot" a style on the competitive circuit? I wouldn't know my international style from my american style, so sorry if I am ill informed.

No you don't need technique to do a basic SSQQ and do a basic turn to get around corners. For beginners it's all about the steps and not stepping on your partner. I'm happy to just do the basics socially if that's all they can do. Why try to use extensions and closed dance position, etc when dancing with someone who only knows the basic step? You'd scare them off!! :shock:

And yes I love Foxtrot as well, with or without technique.

 

[madmaximus]

Me: It feels so good when you place or just make it to finals or semis after working SO HARD for a LONG period of time. It makes me cry, and so touched everytime when this happens. I get so happy. It's really hard to describe it in words, but this is why I want to work so hard on my dancing and compete in pro/am.

My teacher: But how long does that happiness last? a day? a week? or not even that? If you don't enjoy the process of getting there, then there's no point. you shouldn't be dancing/competing if that's the case.

This conversation makes me think about lots of stuff that I have done in my life.....do I really enjoy doing them? or is it for something else? I really don't know.....and I mean, dancing is fun, but I truely haven't enjoyed myself a lot at socials lately. I feel like I am not able to dance the way I want at socials with socail dancers, and something just doesn't feel right. During my lessons, there are of course a lot of hard works. It was fun at the beginning when I was doing american style social dancing, but now, there are just so many techiques in standard and latin. I just have to do the same thing over and over to be good at them. Before, I get so happy at socials when a guy leads me through a move I don't know and I do it right. Now, if that every happens (I can still follow the lead), I then start thinking if I have my foot placements (toe/heel) and all the other details right. (I would rather actually know the details) I don't feel that my lessons are "fun." But I still want to dance and compete, for the reason I said before. Is this really wrong? anyone?

It is a distinct irony that we usually don't recognize a truly significant moment in our life when it happens. But it is only after some intervening time--and reflection--that we realize how priceless these little gems were. Imagine how much more meaningful they would have been had we been looking! Oftentimes we only have memories of those precious moments to look back on.

Look at a social dance, a competition, and a lesson for what it is. Recognizing that these are different environments to be savored and enjoyed. Who knows, you might see that you made someone's night at a party because they've been dreaming of dancing with someone as good as you! We were all beginners once, and I remember how much fun it was to dance with someone who was better than I!


As dancers we are usually so wrapped up with the deficiencies of our technique that we forget how much progress we've made. (Try writing with the hand that you usually don't use, and you'll appreciate how well you can write with the other. But try writing by holding your teeth, and you'll appreciate the challenges a quadraplegic has to go through). With our pace in life, we so often fail to look around and appreciate the world we're in, or fail to see that our partner made a wonderful step or that we sailed through that part of the routine much easier that time around.

And that really is the bane of perfecting one's dance--the dissatisfaction of where one is--because there are so many others who are where we want to be.

I guess what I'm saying is try looking at the other details of life, of dance. Enjoy your achievements and failures as much as the road you took to get there. Remember that success is simply having the same level of enthusiasm from failure to failure.

Look at the good things twice more than the bad. And tomorrow, smell some flowers! Smell some for you, for your partner, heck--smell some for all of us!

good tidings and happy thoughts,

maximus

 

[dTas]

i like to look at it this way...

within each of us there are 3 levels of dancing:
- competative/show level
- social level
- basic level

at the competative/show level we dance to the best of our ability in the dances that we are the best at. we have perfect conditions, maximum training possible, technique is at its highest possible setting. we're dancing with someone of the same calibur or better to known music on a set routine.

the social level is the middle ground. we use as much technique as we're comfortable with. we're dancing in a "hostile" environment because we don't know who we're dancing with (as well as our competative partner), we don't know the people dancing around us, and we don't have the pick of the music. (as well as other things)

the basic level is what we feel to be the bare minimum of our dancing skill. some are only comfortable with the basics, others know more and are comfortable with more complex elements. this can include styling, timing, balance, etc.

i think we measure ourselves somewhere with these 3 levels. and depending on where these levels lie tells us how we feel about our dancing. some people only measure themselves with one level indicator and don't worry about the others. some use all three.

i think they work with each other... the higher you basic level the better social dancer. the better competative dancer the more we're comfortable with the basics. on and on you can compare each against the other in many ways. but i believe one thing is true... they all effect the other. you get better in one level you increase in all levels. you just may not realize it.

 

[Chris Stratton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "International Foxtrot" a style on the competitive circuit? I wouldn't know my international style from my american style, so sorry if I am ill informed.

No you don't need technique to do a basic SSQQ and do a basic turn to get around corners.

And that's a fine way to get beginners on the floor, and an especially usefull exercise for intermediates trying to get their technique right. But if you want the wondeful floating continuity steps in SQQ timing, you need the benefit of substantial practice at using the proper foot actions and moving with a partner. It just won't work with sloppy feet and bounce leads the way SSQQ foxtrot can.

 

[DanceDivaM]

Me: It feels so good when you place or just make it to finals or semis after working SO HARD for a LONG period of time. It makes me cry, and so touched everytime when this happens. I get so happy. It's really hard to describe it in words, but this is why I want to work so hard on my dancing and compete in pro/am.

My teacher: But how long does that happiness last? a day? a week? or not even that? If you don't enjoy the process of getting there, then there's no point. you shouldn't be dancing/competing if that's the case.

Some people are more competitive than others and so some, like you and me, savor the thrill of victory. There's nothing wrong with that and it's great motivation. But I disagree with your teacher's opinion, at least based on the fact that you're a competitive student.

Think about how it is to go to the gym. Personally, I don't enjoy working out. I do not consider weight machines and treadmills a fun way to pass the time. But I DO like the way I feel when I work out regularly and I DO like the way I feel walking out when I've had a really good workout. The end justifies the means, both on a long term and short term basis.

Now, if you were a student learning to dance for social reasons, that's a different story. Fun is the name of the game, and is the reason those types of students do it. They don't want to get bogged down in excessive technique. But this is not you, so a difference approach is necessary.

Finally, social dances are not the competition floor. You are not under a microscope and like everyone else has already said, you need to relax and have a good time. Look at it as the whirlpool after you work out at the gym; it's a reward for a job well done.