The cost of competitions

Chris Stratton said:
For the record I've heard of cases where that has happened - though it's been more of an investment in drumming up business than simple enjoyment for the pro.
It has happened to me, more than once.....
speaking of reason(s)? I didn't know, I still don't, and probably will never know.
I guess, we are all human beings afterall, so we all have emotions and thoughts. I don't believe free lessons are because of pure enjoyment of the pro, but I also don't think the pro will do it if it's as bad as described by someone.
 
Twilight_Elena said:
My opinions on Pro/Am: Personally, I'd never do it. Not because I believe that the Cinderella complex stands for the Ams doing Pro/Am, partly because it's too expensive, and partly because I (again, personally) would feel inferior dancing in competitions with a man who is way above my level and is probably covering up many of my mistakes. Even if I placed, I would always wonder, is it just him making me look good? I'm sure most Pros make their students look better than they actually are - not intentionally, but subconsciously. Even in our everyday classes our teachers/coaches subconsciously do a good save when we miss a follow because they are more experienced. It might look like the step was executed well by both when it is not the case.
Still, this is not a strong argument. My strongest reason for not wanting to dance Pro/Am is the fact that I'll never be on the same boat with my partner. In a Pro/Pro or Am/Am partnership, the partners are practically equal. They practice together, take classes together, learn together. They both do it solely because they want it and enjoy it and not because they are being paid. They are, in my mind, truly partners.
Clarifications: A Pro can be enjoying his Pro/Am arrangement. He can be excited when he has a good student who strives to do better each day. I'm sure many Pros draw the same pleasure out of dancing Pro/Am that they do when teaching a student. From the small taste I have had of it (teaching, not Pro/Am), it truly is a delight. :D Yet a Pro and an Am still have a "strictly business" relationship. One is paying the other to be his/her partner, right? In my head, dancing Pro/Am can be an extension of the learning process,sort of like a workshop in the ways of competitions. So obviously, I would never say it's bad. That would be like saying "Group classes are silly, we should all be taking privates". It's simply a teaching method I wouldn't be eager to try.

Twilight Elena

P.s. I've just stepped out of my hiatus to say all this. Do take them into consideration.
P.p.s. Fascination pointed out that an argument I was referring to happened some time ago and has quieted down. My bad, I wasn't following this thread too closely. Edited.
I have competed ProAm and I have competed with my husband as AmAm and I found ProAm to be a better experience overall. I don't really care if I am not equal to my Pro. Maybe if I had an Am partner with whom I would be more closely matched in skills, and who would not yell at me when I made a mistake (OK, I am stopping here, I am not going to list all my husband's faults), maybe then not being a true partner while doing ProAm would have bothered me.
 

Laura

New Member
I've been doing both Pro/Am and amateur over the years, and each has its advantages and pitfalls. The biggest complaint about Pro/Am is always the money. Well, thank goodness there is the much cheaper amateur option. The biggest complaint about amateur is finding a good partner. Well, there's the more expensive Pro/Am option. At least there are options, other than "give up competitive dancing altogether."
 
One thing I've always wondered about ProAm--and please don't take offense, I'm just asking a frank question: Do you (the Am) feel that the Pro takes your partnership as seriously as he/she might take a partnership of equals?
 

Laura

New Member
I've never wondered that because I've never even presumed to think that he would take it as seriously. Like, I was just some syllabus-level student (one of several), but his pro partner was his claim to fame (and his wife).

Sometimes I think students take their Pro/Am "partnerships" too seriously. Some are serious partnerships, but the vast majority are student/teacher relationships and should be thought of as such.

Still, there are some advantages to this as compared to an amateur parternship of peers. I find an amateur partnership of peers more satisfying in many ways, but more frustrating in some ways.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
caityrosey said:
One thing I've always wondered about ProAm--and please don't take offense, I'm just asking a frank question: Do you (the Am) feel that the Pro takes your partnership as seriously as he/she might take a partnership of equals?
I think a pro can feel very differnetly about different AMs depending upon potential, $, practice etc....just depends...and NO, no one but me is as interested in my dancing as I am.....nonethless, I may not be his dance equal...but I AM his equal
 
he doesn't think of it as a partnership at all, and rightly so. it's a teaching relationship.

i'm sure there are young/immature/other students out there who misapprehend the nature of the relationship they have with their pro instructor.
 

Laura

New Member
I knew this one older woman who called her teacher her "partner" and would blame him, the choreography, her costume, his remembering or not remembering the routines, anything but her own sub-par dancing when they didn't do well enough for her liking. Bluntly, this lady was a bit of a bat. I think that's where I developed my automatic cringe for when a student calls their pro/am teacher their "partner."

Student/teacher relationships, especially if it develops into more of a mentorship, are fantastic and provide a lot of growth opportunities. But it's not the same as being two peers with their careers on the line for a pro or high-level 'amateur' event, or their pride on the line for a low-level amateur event. (And I'm not saying there's no pride in pro/am...I did pro/am off and on for seven years so don't think I don't know what I'm talking about...I'm just saying it's different -- there's this level of removal or detachment that is different from being two peers working toward a common goal.)
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
Laura said:
I knew this one older woman who called her teacher her "partner" and would blame him, the choreography, her costume, his remembering or not remembering the routines, anything but her own sub-par dancing when they didn't do well enough for her liking. Bluntly, this lady was a bit of a bat. I think that's where I developed my automatic cringe for when a student calls their pro/am teacher their "partner."

I thought about you when I noticed the announcers on DWTS calling the couples so-and-so and their "pro partner" blah-blah-blah.

What did you (not just you, Laura, anybody) make of that? Or was I the only one who noticed?
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
alemana said:
he doesn't think of it as a partnership at all, and rightly so. it's a teaching relationship.

i'm sure there are young/immature/other students out there who misapprehend the nature of the relationship they have with their pro instructor.
no doubt about it...and I can honestly say I have never met a pro am dancer who would call their pro their partner...some might call him their friend, but none call him their partner
 

mamboqueen

Well-Known Member
I call mine "pretty boy". There's a little story behind it, though. He was teaching my daughter and he kept telling her to do something and she kept telling him she couldn't and he said "of course you can do it," and she said "prove it, pretty boy." She also told him once that he looked like a vampire. Thank God he has a good sense of humor.
 
caityrosey said:
One thing I've always wondered about ProAm--and please don't take offense, I'm just asking a frank question: Do you (the Am) feel that the Pro takes your partnership as seriously as he/she might take a partnership of equals?
I would say he takes pro-am competing as SERIOUSLY as his own pro partnership--BUT it's a whole different kind of competing relationship, with different goals, degrees of commitment (he practices several hours a day with his pro partner; I take 2 lessons a week), and so on. But when we compete and practice for competition, he is totally serious, committed to what we're doing, and wants to WIN! If for no other reason than, he feels judges are always watching the pros, even when they are competing with their pro-am students, and how they and their students do affects how the judges view them, which can affect their pro placings. But he's a committed teacher, so I'm sure he would care even if that weren't the case.
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
mamboqueen said:
He was teaching my daughter and he kept telling her to do something and she kept telling him she couldn't and he said "of course you can do it," and she said "prove it, pretty boy." She also told him once that he looked like a vampire. Thank God he has a good sense of humor.
Your daughter looks like a little cutie-pie. Devilish as all-get-out, but cute. I would hate to be you, come discipline time. you. :wink: :lol:
 

mamboqueen

Well-Known Member
pygmalion said:
Your daughter looks like a little cutie-pie. Devilish as all-get-out, but cute. I would hate to be you, come discipline time. you. :wink: :lol:

suffice it to say she doesn't misbehave too often....she's not keen on the taste of soap :raisebro:
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
thats alsmost as likely as going back upstairs and listening to dh talk w/dtr about fractions...not my thing...spent too much time confined to bedrest in years past to ever watch movies or tv in any real way again
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
You don't watch A Christmas Story. You turn it on (on TBS, I think, or is that TNT? ) for background noise during their annual Christmas-day 24-hour marathon. Eventually, you'll know all the dialogue without ever having watched the movie.

Besides. It's a classic. Really. I wouldn't kid ya. :)
 

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