The tango connection

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#81
I still think that it's better to at least see how someone dances, better yet dance with them, and then determine their level. I've seen dancers with one year experience, and the difference sometimes is quite stunning! The forum can demonstrate theoretical knowledge, and definitely erudition, but not _really_ dance skill. I have friends who can name all figures and know all the steps, but as far as the execution of the steps is concerned, others are much much better than them...
You maybe right, but not many of us know how to dance with someone on an Internet forum. Thus some of us resort to forming opinions based on what they say.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#82
opendoor said:
I do not agree. ... all these relational disturbed and burdened people in our tango communities usually avoid any closer contact.
If you compare it to salsa, yes! But I am simply sharing my experience that there is still a lot of dating or at least desire for involvement...
"desire for involvement..." ok, agreed.
Anna said:
broken hearts, then dropping tango for awhile, then rejoining the group... That's what I've seen many times.
Of course the tango community is a small image of the world and does reflect all their possibilities. But besides the said ones there are still a lot of other solutions: couples attending and dancing separately, people seeking variation or temptation without knowing of their life partners, people of whom no one actually knows their name, people you know name and occupation, couples dealing unsophisticated with their partnership. And finally, yes the carrousel also exists.
 

jantango

Active Member
#83
But my heart lies elsewhere--with a guy who did not want to dance with me :(. He was one of the organizers, I think, which made him busy that night, but then again he danced with other women!!! And from what I can tell, they are not any better dancers than I am. Since I invited him once already and he refused, now I can't make myself invite him again. It's so awkward also when I see him dance with other women. And it hurts when I expect to see him at milongas, but he does not show up. Life is such a mess. Ok, I have to admit that I have not researched him, so may be he also has a SO, which will make him out of the question. :)
Do you think you're the first woman in this kind of situation? Think again. I've been there, and so have thousands upon thousands of other women. Don't let the chatter in your head drive you crazy. That's all it is. The ego wants what it wants, and when it wants it. Be patient and stay in the moment.

Try to make a policy not to invite any man to dance. It's tradition, especially in tango.

It's not about who is the better dancer. A decision is made in a fraction of a second. Don't take it personally.

La vida es una milonga as the lyric says. Life is a milonga. Try to enjoy the dance and stop worrying about who, what, when, where and why.
 
#84
Do you think you're the first woman in this kind of situation? Think again. I've been there, and so have thousands upon thousands of other women. Don't let the chatter in your head drive you crazy. That's all it is. The ego wants what it wants, and when it wants it. Be patient and stay in the moment.

Try to make a policy not to invite any man to dance. It's tradition, especially in tango.

It's not about who is the better dancer. A decision is made in a fraction of a second. Don't take it personally.

La vida es una milonga as the lyric says. Life is a milonga. Try to enjoy the dance and stop worrying about who, what, when, where and why.
Well, when I consider the big picture, this incident does not really bother me that much. I can take a pang here and there. I am pretty used to them. Plus, as you say, there is no point to take it personally.

I am curious about women inviting men to dance because someone also listed this as a pet peeve on another thread. My girlfriends invite guys to dance, and I do too. We do not do this 100% of the time, only when we want to get more dances. In general, I have very rarely been rejected, but this is perhaps because I approach friendly types. So, I do not know about this policy. Every time I try to apply it, a friend is trying to dissuade me. If I do not apply it, then....
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#85
Well, when I consider the big picture, this incident does not really bother me that much. I can take a pang here and there. I am pretty used to them. Plus, as you say, there is no point to take it personally.

I am curious about women inviting men to dance because someone also listed this as a pet peeve on another thread. My girlfriends invite guys to dance, and I do too. We do not do this 100% of the time, only when we want to get more dances. In general, I have very rarely been rejected, but this is perhaps because I approach friendly types. So, I do not know about this policy. Every time I try to apply it, a friend is trying to dissuade me. If I do not apply it, then....
Well, you know now. ;)

IMO If you know the person and dance with regulary it's suitable to ask for dancing but at the festival it might be big no no.
You may ask leader for an invitation, but not for the dance (diplomate). :D
 

jantango

Active Member
#86
Well, when I consider the big picture, this incident does not really bother me that much. I can take a pang here and there. I am pretty used to them. Plus, as you say, there is no point to take it personally.

I am curious about women inviting men to dance because someone also listed this as a pet peeve on another thread. My girlfriends invite guys to dance, and I do too. We do not do this 100% of the time, only when we want to get more dances. In general, I have very rarely been rejected, but this is perhaps because I approach friendly types. So, I do not know about this policy. Every time I try to apply it, a friend is trying to dissuade me. If I do not apply it, then....
It's understood that everyone at a dance is there to dance. The tradition in social dancing around the world for decades is the man invites the woman to dance. It's as difficult for a man to reject a woman's invitation, as a woman to reject a man's invitation. Eye contact and head movement is a mutual agreement that both want to dance together. There is no public embarrassment.

Your girlfriends who invite the guys don't care about with whom they day or the music. Tango is exercise for them. They got dressed up and want to be seen dancing. Getting more dances is the ego wanting what it wants, when it want it.

Wouldn't you rather wait for an invitation from a man who wants to dance with you, to the music that inspires him to dance well?

There have been nights I've danced only one incredible tanda. I went home satisfied.

I suggest you read more on the codes and how things are done in milongas.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#87
It's understood that everyone at a dance is there to dance. The tradition in social dancing around the world for decades is the man invites the woman to dance. It's as difficult for a man to reject a woman's invitation, as a woman to reject a man's invitation. Eye contact and head movement is a mutual agreement that both want to dance together. There is no public embarrassment.

Your girlfriends who invite the guys don't care about with whom they day or the music. Tango is exercise for them. They got dressed up and want to be seen dancing. Getting more dances is the ego wanting what it wants, when it want it.

Wouldn't you rather wait for an invitation from a man who wants to dance with you, to the music that inspires him to dance well?

There have been nights I've danced only one incredible tanda. I went home satisfied.

I suggest you read more on the codes and how things are done in milongas.
Since AT is social dance it is also socializing. In smaller communities I find it perfectly appropriate when follower invites for the dance. We are all friends, not strangers. We chat, we laugh, we know a lot about each other. So it would be very inappropriate to treat them tools. That we know them only to fullfil need for dancing.

IMHO Codes depend on environment we are in.

"when in Rome, do as the Romans do"
 
#88
Your girlfriends who invite the guys don't care about with whom they day or the music. Tango is exercise for them. They got dressed up and want to be seen dancing. Getting more dances is the ego wanting what it wants, when it want it.

Wouldn't you rather wait for an invitation from a man who wants to dance with you, to the music that inspires him to dance well?

There have been nights I've danced only one incredible tanda. I went home satisfied.

I suggest you read more on the codes and how things are done in milongas.
I guess it does not come as a surprise that I am with Jantango on this one. When you ask the guys, you probably get more floor time. Do you get more tango? I am not so sure. Tango is not about quantity.

Better leaders who care about music and connection do not like being asked by followers. For them the dance starts, the connection is made way before they take the lady in their arms on the floor.
A woman who is willing to forego that initial part of the dance, in the best case scenario, when the guy is not against dancing with her, deprives the man (and herself) of something important and actually very pleasant.
 

jfm

Active Member
#89
hmmm the caressy-back-not-letting-go-between-songs guy sounds like he's putting moves on you. There are a lot of guys-some good dancers included- who DO try to pick up girls at milongas, as in for "bit on the side" action in the lavs or more innocent ego boost flirtation.
I'm not sure you are "cheating" but it sounds like he's getting his jollies. Personally I find it creepy and disrespectful when men do that, but I've been in the milongas long enough not to be susceptible to dance crushes.
Most guys don't caress your back all through the dance as that's a bit like touching you up, and they know it. Unless he was actually adjusting his embrace, and then it's all a misunderstanding...
 
#90
hmmm the caressy-back-not-letting-go-between-songs guy sounds like he's putting moves on you. There are a lot of guys-some good dancers included- who DO try to pick up girls at milongas, as in for "bit on the side" action in the lavs or more innocent ego boost flirtation.
I'm not sure you are "cheating" but it sounds like he's getting his jollies. Personally I find it creepy and disrespectful when men do that, but I've been in the milongas long enough not to be susceptible to dance crushes.
Most guys don't caress your back all through the dance as that's a bit like touching you up, and they know it. Unless he was actually adjusting his embrace, and then it's all a misunderstanding...
Ugh! Guys thinking that a woman can be something on the side are beyond repulsive to me... I find even the innocent flirtation problematic. If his SO minds these kinds of things, he should not do them. What a messy world...

Ah, and is that true? Back caressing in the tango world is the equivalent of touching someone up. Disgusting! Oh, you just manged to burst my bubble of my one and only mystical tango experience so far. But, no worries, I do not want to kill the messenger.
 
#91
It's understood that everyone at a dance is there to dance. The tradition in social dancing around the world for decades is the man invites the woman to dance. It's as difficult for a man to reject a woman's invitation, as a woman to reject a man's invitation. Eye contact and head movement is a mutual agreement that both want to dance together. There is no public embarrassment.

Your girlfriends who invite the guys don't care about with whom they day or the music. Tango is exercise for them. They got dressed up and want to be seen dancing. Getting more dances is the ego wanting what it wants, when it want it.

Wouldn't you rather wait for an invitation from a man who wants to dance with you, to the music that inspires him to dance well?

There have been nights I've danced only one incredible tanda. I went home satisfied.

I suggest you read more on the codes and how things are done in milongas.


Just a quick reply, jantango. No, it is not just an exercise. It's an important form of physical expression. Dancing AT is not the same as working out, zoomba, or swimming, or skiing, or what have you. And it's not about being seen at all.

And what are the chances of being invited by the one great dancer after 3-5 hours of waiting? Not much from what I understand from this forum. I am at my passionate love stage of tango; others, more experienced dancers, are like wine connoisseurs, willing and able to indulge for the right bottle of wine at the right time for the right song. Not so with me. I have not had enough of tango yet. :) All in haste!
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#92
Ugh! Guys thinking that a woman can be something on the side are beyond repulsive to me... I find even the innocent flirtation problematic. If his SO minds these kinds of things, he should not do them. What a messy world...

Ah, and is that true? Back caressing in the tango world is the equivalent of touching someone up. Disgusting! Oh, you just manged to burst my bubble of my one and only mystical tango experience so far. But, no worries, I do not want to kill the messenger.
Take it easy a bit. Leader can feel the tension in the followers.
If you find sth inappropriate you can always leave or complain.

If you have that attitude I wonder if don't have any invitations.
I don't imply that advanced dancer want to cuddle or sth else,
they just don't want to dance with a land mine.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#93
I guess it does not come as a surprise that I am with Jantango on this one. When you ask the guys, you probably get more floor time. Do you get more tango? I am not so sure. Tango is not about quantity.

Better leaders who care about music and connection do not like being asked by followers. For them the dance starts, the connection is made way before they take the lady in their arms on the floor.
A woman who is willing to forego that initial part of the dance, in the best case scenario, when the guy is not against dancing with her, deprives the man (and herself) of something important and actually very pleasant.
I am talking from the leaders point of view, better or worse I cannot tell.
I received some compliments about my dancing, so I may consider myself a solid dancer.
I will talk only for myself and I do not represent every AT leader on this planet.

I care about music and connection and the community.
I dance with everybody including beginners.
I would dance if invited if someone has favourite song or want to dance/improve sth (but I would not teach).
I would dance if someone is polite enough to ask, maybe not that moment, but surely later.
I would respect the level of the follower and adjust myself.
This generally applies for local milongas, not the festivals.

I believe it's a blasphemy for some folks here, but I don't care.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#94
I am talking from the leaders point of view, better or worse I cannot tell.
I received some compliments about my dancing, so I may consider myself a solid dancer.
I will talk only for myself and I do not represent every AT leader on this planet.

I care about music and connection and the community.
I dance with everybody including beginners.
I would dance if invited if someone has favourite song or want to dance/improve sth (but I would not teach).
I would dance if someone is polite enough to ask, maybe not that moment, but surely later.
I would respect the level of the follower and adjust myself.
This generally applies for local milongas, not the festivals.

I believe it's a blasphemy for some folks here, but I don't care.


I feel the same way.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#95
hmmm the caressy-back-not-letting-go-between-songs guy sounds like he's putting moves on you. There are a lot of guys-some good dancers included- who DO try to pick up girls at milongas, as in for "bit on the side" action in the lavs or more innocent ego boost flirtation.
I'm not sure you are "cheating" but it sounds like he's getting his jollies. Personally I find it creepy and disrespectful when men do that, but I've been in the milongas long enough not to be susceptible to dance crushes.
Most guys don't caress your back all through the dance as that's a bit like touching you up, and they know it. Unless he was actually adjusting his embrace, and then it's all a misunderstanding...
Bingo. No, it's not cheating. But tango, like life, isn't binary. Those behavior are just creepy and way out of line, in 99% of cases.
 
#96
Some guys do not mind being asked. Many are being kind, and try to oblige the lady who is asking them. But if it makes any difference for you who to dance with, your not being able to choose will get in the way of your pleasure. Some night you won't be able to dance with whom you wish at all, because all you were doing was obliging the proactive ladies. Sometimes you are already making a connection, and here comes another person, completely oblivious of what is going on, and asks you. You say "yes" and abandon the first person, or say "later"to the second person and still go with the first, either way there is an awkward feeling of something being interrupted.
Of course, some are either not as sensible to those matters or/and it does not really matter much to them who to dance with. To each his own, I guess.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#97
Some guys do not mind being asked. Many are being kind, and try to oblige the lady who is asking them. But if it makes any difference for you who to dance with, your not being able to choose will get in the way of your pleasure. Some night you won't be able to dance with whom you wish at all, because all you were doing was obliging the proactive ladies. Sometimes you are already making a connection, and here comes another person, completely oblivious of what is going on, and asks you. You say "yes" and abandon the first person, or say "later"to the second person and still go with the first, either way there is an awkward feeling of something being interrupted.
Of course, some are either not as sensible to those matters or/and it does not really matter much to them who to dance with. To each his own, I guess.
I don't get asked every milonga ten times per evening. ;)
You are taking to a another extreme situation.
I am perfectly ok if I say no, and that no means permanently no, or no until I invite.
I went to a milonga and didn't dance cause I didn't feel dancing.
Maybe I danced tanda or two but no more.
 
#98
I don't get asked every milonga ten times per evening. ;)
You are taking to a another extreme situation.
I am perfectly ok if I say no, and that no means permanently no, or no until I invite.
I went to a milonga and didn't dance cause I didn't feel dancing.
Maybe I danced tanda or two but no more.
Well, good for you to be assertive about that.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#99
I don't get asked every milonga ten times per evening. ;)
You are taking to a another extreme situation.
I am perfectly ok if I say no, and that no means permanently no, or no until I invite.
I went to a milonga and didn't dance cause I didn't feel dancing.
Maybe I danced tanda or two but no more.
If I don't feel like dancing, I won't go to a milonga, (unless I'm DJing).

 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
If I don't feel like dancing, I won't go to a milonga, (unless I'm DJing).

There are evening where people are cheerful and there are when are gloomy.
I may say that I never know what to expect when I go to local milonga. ;)
I came for dancing but didn't dance, or I came accidentally and enjoyed dancing. :cool:
I am suprised by everyting now. ;)
 

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