Timba versus Salsa. The Different Rhythms

#1
Which rhythms are exclusive to Timba? Which to Salsa? Which are common to both?
Rumba Clave - Timba!
Son Clave- Both
Son Montuno - ?
Cascara- ? (&1 2 3& &5 6& &)
Martillo-
Mambo Bell- ?
Cow Bell- ?
Cha Cha Rhythm - I feel it in many salsa songs, but I am not sure if I can call it a salsa rhythm.
Guaguanco- I hear the 4, 5, &, 8 rhythm played in some Timba songs.
Caballo- ?
Other- ?
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#2
I find it hard to find differences because either is a fusion art. And by the way, for some years timba was the state-imposed translation for salsa.
 
#3
There is some truth to what you say, but certain things are very different. I almost never hear the rumba clave rhythm in salsa music. In timba music, I hear it all the time.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#4
… never hear the rumba clave rhythm in salsa music...
Nor do I, but very often I do not hear any son-clave, too ;-)
Robert said:
In timba music, I hear it all the time.
But what about timba music you did not listen to? I think it might be better to analyze specific pieces. You could post interrupted YT links or leave the dots out. By the way, welcome to DF!
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#9
I don't understand either of your statements.
I'm a proponent of those guys who claim that there isn't anything like salsa. I try to find ingredients, such as montuno, romantica, mambo, changuí, or guaracha. All the same for timba with its rumba-loaded influences. But musically seen there is a continuum.
 
#10
Of course, but I was talking of >hearing< not of being >present<. There are a lot of pieces without wooden clave sticks.
In the majority of recorded mambo and salsa, the clave is implied and not actually played on the instrument of the same name. (The clave rhythm being played on the clave sticks is also very common in mambo and salsa recordings, even if implied clave is even more common.)

Regardless of whether or not an individual can hear it correctly, the clave is always present in mambo and salsa.

I should have mentioned previously: to hear the clave correctly is a skill that needs to be learnt.
 
#11
I'm a proponent of those guys who claim that there isn't anything like salsa. I try to find ingredients, such as montuno, romantica, mambo, changuí, or guaracha. All the same for timba with its rumba-loaded influences. But musically seen there is a continuum.
I don't think there is anyone who actually claims that 'there isn't anything like salsa'.
 
#14
Which rhythms are exclusive to Timba? Which to Salsa? Which are common to both?
Rumba Clave - Timba!
Son Clave- Both
Son Montuno - ?
Cascara- ? (&1 2 3& &5 6& &)
Martillo-
Mambo Bell- ?
Cow Bell- ?
Cha Cha Rhythm - I feel it in many salsa songs, but I am not sure if I can call it a salsa rhythm.
Guaguanco- I hear the 4, 5, &, 8 rhythm played in some Timba songs.
Caballo- ?
Other- ?
All of these rhythms are present in timba. As people have mentioned, rumba clave is much more common in timba than salsa. But there are orchestrated rumbas by salsa groups that use the rumba clave since it is rumba.

I don't think any of these rhythms or features are exclusive to either genre. Some are more common in one than the other, but not exclusive. Really the vast majority of rhythms and instruments are shared.

I do think you can look at some "gears" that as far as I know are exclusive to timba. They all have their individual variations by timba group. But you don't hear bomba (I'm talking about the gear not the PR rhythm), mazacote (again refering to the gear not the use of the term in general) and pedal used in salsa. I don't know if any salsa groups have started using songo, but it is used by many groups in Cuba. Also pilón seems to be making a bit of a comeback in Cuba these days, in a small way. And El Niño y La Verdad have a mozambique on their album.

On the other side, I don't know of any Cuban bands using plena in their timba or real PR bomba. I think you do get that in some salsa.
 

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