To claim or not to claim...that is your milonga!

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#81
I'm not contradicting myself by saying I cannot dance milonga as well as I do tango. My point is that if you can dance tango, then the same principles (groundedness, embrace, basic repetoire) can be adjusted to allow you to dance milonga with wholly different character. I guess what you guys class as "dancing well" is far more lofty than my view. The only reason I can think of milonga not being possible for a tango dancer, is if there is imminent risk of a heart attack.
Kieron, I hear what you're saying, but just based on personal experience with various leaders I've got to disagree.

Milonga seems to be what separates the men from the boys in terms of AT leaders. Just my $0.02.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#84
Won't disagree, when it comes to AT. But you also don't choose to focus on AT.

But talk about ballroom, and you're definitely a man. :D
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#85
Interesting - so do you think Milonga is more difficult than Tango?
As a follower, no. There's an issue of speed to get used to, but it's not particularly more difficult. Following is following is following.

But it definitely seems to be more difficult for the leaders. Now, if it's because of something inherent to the dance, or the fact that it's not taught as often/with the same dedication...that I don't know. (And, since I don't lead at all, I won't speculate on.)
 
#86
I'm sure there is something in this [milonga being harder to lead ...]. Im very happy to dance Tango, and Vals, with anyone from absolute beginners.

But I do appreciate a good lead for Milonga. T xx
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#87
This is true in reverse, too - i will dance a tango with anybody, but dancing milonga with a beginning follower is not fun. Milonga requires that the follower activly maintains her axis and and alignment to the leader. And she needs a certain degree of fearlessness and not being afraid of looking foolish.
Gssh
 
#88
But it definitely seems to be more difficult for the leaders.
Not so much more difficult for leaders but more difficult for those who have no innate sense of rhythm. In much the same way (when I fly out to see my folks) as when I see most travelling Europeans struggling to dance a Jamaican Soca and then I see a 6-year old native executing the "all in the hips/all in the hips" gyration perfectly. When it comes to natural sense of rhythm, I think its a case of one either has it or they don't.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#89
As I read the comments, I have to ask those of you who think the speed of milonga is intimidating in some way...
Milonga has a 2 / 4 time signature. Are you dancing four steps for each 4 beats? Or are you stepping mostly on the 2s?
If you step only on the 2s, which are the most emphasized beats in milonga, you effectively reduce the number of steps you take by half.
Vals/Waltz is in 3/4 time. You could step on each beat, but you don't. You only step on the 1 2 and 3. (Well, in vals you can step as many or as few times as you want. But hopefully you get the point.)

Milonga is not hard. I can take total beginners and do an interesting milonga with them. First I ask them to listen to the beat, and count it for them (the 2s only). Then I tell them that we are only going to step on those beats. I also ask them to try and keep their weight towards me at all times (otherwise they will miss some of the changes of direction). I also ask them to stay connected to me, which means, don't have floppy arms.
As I've written before, I do this at the country western place, too, when the music is crazy fast, and too fast for most two steppers.

So, are you stepping on each of the 4 beats in a bar, or only twice for each bar?

P.S. "Natural rhytm" largely comes from growing up in a environment that envelopes a very young child (and I would bet it extends back to in the womb) in moving in time to music. Or, acquiring it as a skill by practice.
People tell me that I have a natural, relaxed style when I do public speaking. They should have seen me in college, and when I did my first professional presentations. That "naturalness" comes from many hours of study and practice.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#90
Um, just want to point out that if the music is in 2/4, you only have two beats per bar, by definition. Likewise, with vals in 3/4, you have only three.

That said. The speed in milonga can be somewhat daunting when you get to the third or fourth song in the tanda and you're a bit tired. (Or, if you're like me and you smoke, a bit out of breath.) And, it can be daunting if you're not confident with your technique--even if you've got a good connection, it can be kind of difficult to catch rapid weight changes. And, since it's been the topic of conversation, if your lead is less than good, life can get difficult.

Also, as you've said, if you're stepping only the "two's," or once every measure, there's not much speed to be had. Even if you're stepping on every beat, it's not bad. When the speed becomes daunting is when you're working a lot with double time and traspie. To mingle freely between 1&2&, to 1-ah-2-&-3-ah-4, to stepping on the beat takes a lot of focus.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#91
As I read the comments, I have to ask those of you who think the speed of milonga is intimidating in some way...
Milonga has a 2 / 4 time signature. Are you dancing four steps for each 4 beats? Or are you stepping mostly on the 2s?
If you step only on the 2s, which are the most emphasized beats in milonga, you effectively reduce the number of steps you take by half.
Vals/Waltz is in 3/4 time. You could step on each beat, but you don't. You only step on the 1 2 and 3. (Well, in vals you can step as many or as few times as you want. But hopefully you get the point.)

Milonga is not hard. I can take total beginners and do an interesting milonga with them. First I ask them to listen to the beat, and count it for them (the 2s only). Then I tell them that we are only going to step on those beats. I also ask them to try and keep their weight towards me at all times (otherwise they will miss some of the changes of direction). I also ask them to stay connected to me, which means, don't have floppy arms.
As I've written before, I do this at the country western place, too, when the music is crazy fast, and too fast for most two steppers.

So, are you stepping on each of the 4 beats in a bar, or only twice for each bar?

P.S. "Natural rhytm" largely comes from growing up in a environment that envelopes a very young child (and I would bet it extends back to in the womb) in moving in time to music. Or, acquiring it as a skill by practice.
People tell me that I have a natural, relaxed style when I do public speaking. They should have seen me in college, and when I did my first professional presentations. That "naturalness" comes from many hours of study and practice.
For me, Vals/Waltz has more of a 6/8 feel (the 1 & 4 beats are emphasized (out of the 6 beats)) rather than a 3/4 feel.

Milonga is harder for me, but I suppose part of the reason is that I don't practice it as much.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#92
Um, just want to point out that if the music is in 2/4, you only have two beats per bar, by definition. Likewise, with vals in 3/4, you have only three.

That said. The speed in milonga can be somewhat daunting when you get to the third or fourth song in the tanda and you're a bit tired. (Or, if you're like me and you smoke, a bit out of breath.) And, it can be daunting if you're not confident with your technique--even if you've got a good connection, it can be kind of difficult to catch rapid weight changes. And, since it's been the topic of conversation, if your lead is less than good, life can get difficult.

Also, as you've said, if you're stepping only the "two's," or once every measure, there's not much speed to be had. Even if you're stepping on every beat, it's not bad. When the speed becomes daunting is when you're working a lot with double time and traspie. To mingle freely between 1&2&, to 1-ah-2-&-3-ah-4, to stepping on the beat takes a lot of focus.
Yep, it's the fast traspies that I find to be more challenging.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#93
Well, now that I just posted regarding counts and steps in waltz, lemme post here, too.

"Um, just want to point out that if the music is in 2/4, you only have two beats per bar, by definition."
True enough. But, the other two "non beats", if you will, are available, too. When you take those extra steps quick quick quick, the 2nd quick is between the two "main" beats. Musicians sometimes/often play something in those spaces, inciting us to move with our traspie steps.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#94
Well, now that I just posted regarding counts and steps in waltz, lemme post here, too.

"Um, just want to point out that if the music is in 2/4, you only have two beats per bar, by definition."
True enough. But, the other two "non beats", if you will, are available, too. When you take those extra steps quick quick quick, the 2nd quick is between the two "main" beats. Musicians sometimes/often play something in those spaces, inciting us to move with our traspie steps.
Basically, if you think of it as 2/4 time (and I'm making the assumption that you are considering the two beats to be the "slows"), then the two beats would be represented as quarter notes, and any single quarter note (slow) could be replaced by two eighth notes (quick).
 

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