USA Dance Professional Division

JudeMorrigan

Well-Known Member
#1
So, Glenn Weiss' President's Message contained the following:

January 1st 2017 marks the beginning of a new administration and leadership of USA Dance. For the first time ever the leadership will include professional dancers that make their living teaching and judging dance. ...
This is a big change for the organization, and one that has been difficult for some to accept. However the membership has spoken. We have to remember that USA Dance is no longer just an amateur organization. We are a dance organization that is in competition with other dance organizations. Soon we will also have a professional competitive division.

...

Finally it is time we created a division for professional competitors (PD). This is a fast growing division within WDSF, and we need to be part of it.
Frankly, it's been pretty clear for a while now that the organization was trending towards this decision. There are good reasons for it, not the least of which being that they really do need a pipeline to produce new judges in the long term.

But I also can't help but be a bit sad. As I see it, this pretty much cements a future where there are top American pros who never compete against each other. I'd like to think that someday, WDC and WDSF will bury the hatchet and we'll have some sort of a Superbowl/World Series sort of deal where the best dancers from both organizations compete for at least one competition. I have to think that that'll be a long time coming though.

I also have to think this is going to lead to USAD trying to make their T/S events a more direct competitor for pro-am than they really are currently. It'd take some time to build the fields up to a critical mass, but I really wonder what sort of impact that's going to have on both organizations.
 

dlliba10

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm not going to come down on one side or another re: a USAD PD, but as far as I can see, the reality is that if this USAD PD gets off the ground, it's the final nail in the coffin and there will be two very distinct, very discrete organizations in the US -- two different pro pools, two different student pools for Teacher/Student, two different competition calendars, etc. It's already happening on the amateur level -- all the couples that used to compete both NDCA and USAD are now mostly firmly on one side or another, save for a few couples who, I'm glad, do decently well in both because their dancing is good. I do share Jude's wish for a burying of the hatchet, even at the NDCA/USAD level, let alone WDC/WDSF, but until then, the schism will get wider and wider.
 

snapdancer

Well-Known Member
#5
NDCA has restricted their judges from participation in non-NDCA-sanctioned events. Has NDCA restricted anyone in other roles? Aren't professional instructors allowed to participate in both NDCA pro-am and USAD teacher-student?
 

JudeMorrigan

Well-Known Member
#6
As far as I know, there are no restrictions now. I had planned on doing a USAD competition with my (NDCA) pro before I decided it didn't make sense for me financially.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#7
From the student side I'm sure there won't be restrictions. It remains to be seen with regard to the pros. Could be a big restraint this trade issue for whomever tries to impose restrictions
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
#11
NDCA has restricted their judges from participation in non-NDCA-sanctioned events. Has NDCA restricted anyone in other roles? Aren't professional instructors allowed to participate in both NDCA pro-am and USAD teacher-student?
Yes, and yes. NDCA has restricted any ballroom professional from serving in USA Dance competitions—note that the category "ballroom professional" encompasses more than just dancers.
 

snapdancer

Well-Known Member
#12
Yes, and yes. NDCA has restricted any ballroom professional from serving in USA Dance competitions—note that the category "ballroom professional" encompasses more than just dancers.
From the NDCA rulebook on page 2:
Adjudicators, Scrutineers and other officials, to include but not limited to MC's, Music Directors,
Registrars, Competition Organizers, etc, who choose to register with the NDCA are not permitted to
officiate at or organize any Championship, Multi-Day Competition, or Local One-Day Event that is not
sanctioned by the NDCA or other recognized organizations​

The term "ballroom professional" is not used here, nor does a text search of the rulebook turn it up elsewhere.

Therefore I believe that professional competitors are NOT prohibited by the NDCA from participating in competitions sanctioned by other organizations. If you can point to a specific rule that does that, please point to it.
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
#14
From the NDCA rulebook on page 2:
Adjudicators, Scrutineers and other officials, to include but not limited to MC's, Music Directors,
Registrars, Competition Organizers, etc, who choose to register with the NDCA are not permitted to
officiate at or organize any Championship, Multi-Day Competition, or Local One-Day Event that is not
sanctioned by the NDCA or other recognized organizations​

The term "ballroom professional" is not used here, nor does a text search of the rulebook turn it up elsewhere.

Therefore I believe that professional competitors are NOT prohibited by the NDCA from participating in competitions sanctioned by other organizations. If you can point to a specific rule that does that, please point to it.
You'll note that I used the term ballroom professional, not ballroom competitor...
 
#17
Maybe we should replace freedom to dance with freedom to choose. Potentially if there are more choices, there are more opportunities. It will then be the choice of the organization if they wish to limit choices for dancers, professionals, or adjudicators.
 

s2k

Well-Known Member
#18
So I'm aware of two USAD amateur championship dancers who turned pro (over the past several years) - and they went to NDCA. If you're trying to make a living as a pro, NDCA comps are a way to help you do that. Teacher's Pot of Gold, Top Teacher, there's a percentage of package fees you can tack on to your students' packages, etc.

I'm aware of one professional amateur couple who dances only for USAD - but they own a studio and that studio caters to kids who dance USAD. So that makes sense to me. They are performing where their students are.

What inducements will there be for pros to choose USAD over NDCA? When Champ couples turn pro (and some do) how will USAD convince them to stay with the organization?
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
#20
What inducements will there be for pros to choose USAD over NDCA? When Champ couples turn pro (and some do) how will USAD convince them to stay with the organization?
I don't know if WDSF (USAD) PD couples are allowed to dance WDC (NDCA) events, but if not, that could be one point.
 

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