Use of video and still cameras at comps?

chrisjohnston

Well-Known Member
#82
My parents sacrificed a lot paying for lessons for my brother and sister and me.So that is why I make sure there are reductions for kids , Maybe it is these sacrifices that sometimes lead to the awful behaviour at comps.
One other thing no kids coming through then prob no teachers in the future.sorry for this going off topic a little.

Cheers
Chris
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#83
Chris, I agree that helping folks out is good - that's why in the past we have provided scholarships etc, and still do that today. But seriously, is a savings of $20 going to change lives?
 

danceronice

Well-Known Member
#84
It makes the parents FEEL like they're saving, which when you're already shelling out a ton of money does actually matter. Just because you CAN afford it doesn't mean you want to spend it. Scholarships are for a few (usually in dance the ones who don't need them end up getting them anyway as the ones good enough to earn them already afforded enough lessons to get that good), a small discount keeps bigger numbers in. The real question is why other competitors don't get a free admission/discount...sure, most pro-ams can afford a ticket, but they're already paying an entry fee.
 

nikkitta

Well-Known Member
#85
Right - many adult dancers make huge sacrifices to be there too. Sounds to me from this thread that those that can afford to compete would rather have a "professional" take videos and photos for the most part anyway versus a buddy on the side with a cellphone camera. So how much business would the vendor lose by charging a reasonable fee for a "camera pass" as described earlier? They could charge for each session too, similar to the darn ballroom admission fee. And maybe even only allow certain types of cameras, and exclude your dance-friend who happens to own an expensive really really nice camera.

Just thinking out loud.
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#86
I think that it is not an either/or situation, of course… parity is not always possible. And yet, the perception that somehow Senior or adults should shoulder the burden of the parents of kids is not right either. As I said earlier, I donated money to help support those with less money. The only way a competition allows for that, is for scholarships.

And it is very true that everyone has financial issues. Just because you are there does not mean it was not a sacrifice. Senior (over 30) dancers are quite a large field. To assume that they should not be given, for instance, financial benefits or allowances is disingenuous. Mortgages, car payments, the current economic climate affects them as well.
 

chrisjohnston

Well-Known Member
#87
The real problem is that photographers and video vendors provide a service that is also their livelihood.We all forget that when we pop a photo with our phones that we are not doing this for a living. Sure it does not cost us anything but it does cost the vendors a lot to provide their service .There is no solution that suits everyone . Believe me we have tried .As for policing certain types of cameras.I believe that would start world war 3 and 4 if we tried to enforce that one and who would have the knowledge to enforce that.
Looking forward to any other ideas.

Cheers
Chris
 
#88
Have you ever been the volunteer even just trying to get them to stay on THAT side of the barrier because they aren't allowed to be in the on deck area with their kids? Now imagine trying to tell them they can't film them and they have no other options at that exact moment to capture them on video and their kid is on the floor right then. It might not be acceptable, but some wars just aren't worth fighting.
And realistically speaking, I don't think a video crew would have enough cameras to make sure all kids can be taped. I think the video vendors take the heat sizes into account when they figure out how many cameras to set up. The minimum I've seen was 4. I don't know how many adult competitors tape their single dances. But for a kid event, every parent will want a video, and depending on an area, you could have a lot of local kids participating. So, should the video people bring more equipment, and a bigger crew to make sure they can cover all the kids, and have a bigger portion of it sit idle most of the time except when they're taping kids? That probably would raise prices for everyone.
 
#90
It might lower prices, since they will make more profit...after all, more business is good, right?
I am not so sure. If they have to pay extra cameramen to be there even if they're not doing a lot of taping outside the kids events, I expect this would raise prices. If they're paying the crew for actual taping being done, then it might lower the prices.

Although parents are weird when it comes to videos. Many, many years ago I've been to a kids dance recital, and a professional video was included in the recital fee (I don't remember the details, but it wasn't a lot, something in the ballpark $150, and that IIRC included kids costume and video). Guess what - parents still brought their own video cameras and taped their kids numbers anyway.
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#91
Since all kids events are now being held on one day, then extra help for that one day would make sense.

However, that is not the issue. The issue is whether an angry crowd trumps the other, polite people at a comp. Maybe the key is to get crazy and then people will let you break the rules?
 
#92
I just checked out a website for a competition my pro suggested, and it said that not only private video is prohibited, but private still photography is also prohibited. Do you think this is a general direction where things are headed?
 

ChaChaMama

Well-Known Member
#94
I am not so sure. If they have to pay extra cameramen to be there even if they're not doing a lot of taping outside the kids events, I expect this would raise prices. If they're paying the crew for actual taping being done, then it might lower the prices.

Although parents are weird when it comes to videos. Many, many years ago I've been to a kids dance recital, and a professional video was included in the recital fee (I don't remember the details, but it wasn't a lot, something in the ballpark $150, and that IIRC included kids costume and video). Guess what - parents still brought their own video cameras and taped their kids numbers anyway.
Either the parents were nuts or the video company had a bad rep. I LOVE that my kid's dance recitals have dvds for sale. Parents have a lot to do on comp days, including helping with costume, hair, and accessory changes if your dancer is in multiple numbers. Video-ing would be one more thing.

Now, I will share that I could get the video from both the Friday and the Saturday recitals--each about 3.5 hours long, with different numbers--for about $77 total. So that's ~$11/hr for video-ing. Of course, that's a video of everyone, not just of ChaChaChild and me. Maybe that's why individual parents were videoing at the recital you attended, Tanya. But I can imagine that becoming a total mess and leading to a lot of ill will as parents jockey for position and block other people's view.

****
In terms of whether prohibiting all still photography is where things are going...I think the horse is out of the barn. With cameraphones and I-Pads, enforcing rules like this is going to be pretty labor intensive.

Furthermore, prohibiting still photography will potentially alienate customers. With multiple competitions every weekend, dancers have some consumer choices. No still photography would not be a plus in my book.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#95
I just checked out a website for a competition my pro suggested, and it said that not only private video is prohibited, but private still photography is also prohibited. Do you think this is a general direction where things are headed?
I only have ever known one pro competition to go this far. No other organizer thinks this is a good idea. And since the competition is changing hands (although not that far) perhaps the new organizer will relax the rule over time.
 
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#96
Personally, I find the quality of most tapes produced (by the guys taping the individual heats for purchase) to be sub-par. Especially for the price. .
Totally agree, most tapes are very bad quality for the price thy sell them, we also had some following the wrong couples because the same dress color, or missing few dances, my friends were making much better videos of is just using their iPhones or non-professional cameras
 

flightco

Well-Known Member
#97
I always take pictures and video and I always buy the professional video. When my son is dancing the professional video covers the entire dance and all the dancers, that is great but I want close ups of my son dancing and they don't offer that. I can say on the rare occasion where the professional video was better than mine, mine takes the back burner. When the family comes over they see the professional DVD; but, in my opinion and for what I am looking for, the professional DVD is rarely superior - it may be their living, but they just don't care as much as I do. At the WCO, I found some pictures I liked better than mine and I bought them, even though I had about 600 shots on my own camera
 
#98
The real problem is that photographers and video vendors provide a service that is also their livelihood.We all forget that when we pop a photo with our phones that we are not doing this for a living. Sure it does not cost us anything but it does cost the vendors a lot to provide their service .There is no solution that suits everyone . Believe me we have tried .As for policing certain types of cameras.I believe that would start world war 3 and 4 if we tried to enforce that one and who would have the knowledge to enforce that.
Looking forward to any other ideas.

Cheers
Chris
This is true, but the quality should define the price, so far I see bad quality videos for very high price. If they would make videos like the ones made at WDSF comps, I would be willing pay the price. I believe the part of the bad quality is that there is no competition, we either should allow private taping, or allow multiple vendors
 
#99
I only have ever known one pro competition to go this far. No other organizer thinks this is a good idea. And since the competition is changing hands (although not that far) perhaps the new organizer will relax the rule over time.
Is the event you're talking about east or west from here?
 
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I think it's banned to protect the vendor. I'm sure comps have a contract with their vendors. If everyone videotapes themselves, no one would order from the vendor.
Even during the early heats of a comp (e.g. at 10 am) Blackpool Festival does not allow the use of private video cameras, at which early hour professional filmers will not be recording. No doubt management do not like to encourage private videoing at 10am, in case private filmers get the taste for blood and become impossible to bar at 3pm.

Apart from protecting professional video-makers' sales I think it possible that management do not like amateurs holding poor jerky cameras and filming from bad angles, recording attrociously distorted music sound. Such travesties would be posted on YouTube en masse giving a bad impression to fans who have never seen the glory of Blackpool in person.
 

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