Walking to the Cross (Cruzada)

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Cross system walking
is part of the challenge for a man, I doubt if it is of anything like as much
consequence to the lady.

Ladies, please chime in and tell what you feel, is it worth our effort?
Why would it be harder? It should be easier.. it always seemed easier to me as a leader.

As a follower, as I said in the previous post, I'm not all that aware of whether we are in cross or parallel... got too much else to be concentrating on.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
Usually the man moves to his left in relation to the woman (putting her on his right side) to both lead the cross, or to be "in three tracks".
To maintain a good connection, especially in "apilado close embrace", both partners most rotate their torso towards their partner. Frequently, this does not happen.
(Try putting the woman on your left in three tracks. In that position I almost never get a good connection.)

In dchester's 4 tracks example, the man is even farther away from the woman's center. I think though, that they are in more of a v embrace. It would be REAL hard to stay "apilado connected" in that position. Portland being a "close embrace" town (in reputation), maybe that position just doesn't get any attention.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
Why would it be harder? It should be easier.. it always seemed easier to me as a leader.

As a follower, as I said in the previous post, I'm not all that aware of whether we are in cross or parallel... got too much else to be concentrating on.
That's interesting as you know the cross system from both viewpoints.
From the point of view of walking outside, the cross system requires
less rotation/disassociation unless you try walking the tightrope.

What I found really difficult was the process of working out what each
leg of the partnership was doing. For instance, working out when to cross
which had been taught on the basis of which leg was weighted when
parallel walking rather then concentrating on the legs of the lady etc.

All the other dances I'd done had mirrored footwork, perhaps that had
become so ingrained and intuitive that it took me longer to accept and
work out that what had been illogical now wasn't.

Anyway, enough of that. As a follower then, you are normally unaware
until you find yourself doing backwards travelling ochos and the like.
 

Subliminal

Well-Known Member
Re: Three Track Walking w/ Follower on Left

Meh, if you're of the school that in apilado you NEVER shift at all, it can be awkward. But if you allow for a little sliding from side to side, it makes things more comfortable. There's this one thing I learned where you shift back and forth between sides in 3 track walking, throwing inline sacadas in between outside steps. Some followers think it's cute. *shrug* And those that don't shift, well, you just avoid 3 track walking on the left at all.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
As a follower then, you are normally unaware
until you find yourself doing backwards travelling ochos and the like.
And even then, I'm not thinking about how it's cross or parallel... I'm just doing ochos.

To be honest, if I'm dancing well, none of it (not even the ochos) needs to register in my conscious brain, and if I'm not dancing well, then by the time it registers in my consciousness, it's passed me by and I should be paying attention to the current step.

Or to be blunt... "you can't follow with your brain"

If the follower is doing any analyzing, something's gone wrong on either her end, the leader's end, or both.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
Usually the man moves to his left in relation to the woman (putting her on his right side) to both lead the cross, or to be "in three tracks".
To maintain a good connection, especially in "apilado close embrace", both partners most rotate their torso towards their partner. Frequently, this does not happen.
Yes, it doesn't seem to be taught much, nor is disassociation for ochos.
Lead an ocho and many ladies here want to break the embrace or at
least have the freedom to rotate their whole body.
(Try putting the woman on your left in three tracks. In that position I almost never get a good connection.)
I have one partner that works really well with even to the point of
being able to walk right around her. It depends on the partner as ever.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
And even then, I'm not thinking about how it's cross or parallel... I'm just doing ochos.

To be honest, if I'm dancing well, none of it (not even the ochos) needs to register in my conscious brain, and if I'm not dancing well, then by the time it registers in my consciousness, it's passed me by and I should be paying attention to the current step.
Thanks Zoopsia, that's exactly what I hoped really from the practical
point of view. I'm still left wondering what it adds to the feel and
of course if you have no conscious knowledge, you cannot say.
It's an interesting one isn't it?
Or to be blunt... "you can't follow with your brain"
Nor eventually do you want to lead with your brain, or at least
the conscious part. It needs to be intuitive.
If the follower is doing any analyzing, something's gone wrong on either her end, the leader's end, or both.
Yet again switch that around and it applies to leaders.

Though analysing is continually necessary in the learning and
practice stages in my experience. Leaders have to get past that.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
And even then, I'm not thinking about how it's cross or parallel... I'm just doing ochos.

To be honest, if I'm dancing well, none of it (not even the ochos) needs to register in my conscious brain, and if I'm not dancing well, then by the time it registers in my consciousness, it's passed me by and I should be paying attention to the current step.

Or to be blunt... "you can't follow with your brain"

If the follower is doing any analyzing, something's gone wrong on either her end, the leader's end, or both.
This. Absolutely.

I never have a clue if a guy is in cross or parallel. It doesn't matter to me unless something goes horribly wrong.

As for following, like Zoo said, if it's going right nothing registers. Best dance experiences I've ever had are the times when I get moving, there's a moment of panic when I stop and think that I can't feel any lead and don't know what to do, and then realize that the leader is just that good and things are working just that well that we have achieved that whole "one body, four legs" thing. No thought involved. It's like mind-reading, like there's no leading and following going on. Absolutely mind-blowing.
 
It's new to me to think of tracks as left, right and center of ones partner. I always thought of them more or less as tracks two skiers would leave in the snow. 2 tracks would be center; 3 tracks would be one foot following and the other not, to either L or R side. 4 tracks would be completely to the outside, either to L or R, leaving 4 tracks.
Yes, I used to over-analyze like that, but the highway analogy was so much more intuitive. I think it's a lot easier to dance that way.
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
Yes, I used to over-analyze like that, but the highway analogy was so much more intuitive. I think it's a lot easier to dance that way.
I understand over-analysis, but for me it was not that. To me it was necessary to be clear about this distinction. I rarely go to four tracks, but being absolutely clear about two versus three, four also, helped my dancing. I practiced it with poles until I knew it inside and out.
 
This thread shows why dancing can't be learned from a book. Even simple steps are hard to describe unless the context is clear before we talk about left foot and right foot. Are we in 2,3 or 4 tracks? Is the embrace open, closed or V? Did UKDancer ever get a consensus of opinion about his and his partner's feet, and the white line?
 
the cross

When I first started learning AT, the cross was always incredibly hard to know when I was being led into it. Now, it is no problem at all because my partner gives me a sign that he wants me to go into the cross. He blinks twice for a cross, three times for a grape vine, and four blinks for ochos, six for Gaunchos. The system works beautifully, except for one time when he got something in his eye and I ended up kicking three people.
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
... He blinks twice for a cross, three times for a grape vine, and four blinks for ochos, six for Gaunchos...
So, a cross, followed by two ochos and a gancho would be, what, 16 blinks? I suppose you must also have some sort of spacer or delimiter signal, to separate the counts from each other.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
Whole body communication

So what do signals with his left eye mean?
.. crossing, what else, which of course only works in open hold. In close embrace some teachers suggest a short tapping with the fingers of the right hand on the shoulder blade, or a very subtle raising.

I mean it for real, this is not a joke !
 

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