What are the 5 top reasons that make a man ask a woman to dance? Beauty comes first?

I'm wondering how those of you who advocate asking the woman's partner would deal with the situation of the partner being unhappy that his date dances with others, but she wants to? Is your rule about showing respect to the other guy going to superceed her desire to dance with you if you asked her? Is it your place to "respect" him when she is trying to simply go about her business developing her tango, rather than be controlled by his jealousy?
Then, I say, they have a problem, which they have to work out between the two of them. I don't know about you guys, but I would not get in the middle.
Sometimes my boyfriend and I are at a milonga where there are very few followers he would want to dance with, or he simply is too tired, and does not want to be social. So that night I do not circulate either, even though there are guys I would like to dance with, and I know they are willing to dance with me. Usually people around are sensible to that kind of situation, and accept that. I know my SO will be pissed off if somebody ( a leader or a follower ) chose to disrespect that situation, and insist on asking either one of us.
I do not mind. I know there will be plenty of time to circulate and "develop my tango", as we both normally love to do exactly that, and dance with other people.
My point of view, there is no "independent". We have to consider our partner's feelings, consider existing relationships, and work things out the best we can. The traditional tango etiquette was created for that purpose, too.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Sometimes my boyfriend and I are at a milonga where there are very few followers he would want to dance with, or he simply is too tired, and does not want to be social. So that night I do not circulate either, even though there are guys I would like to dance with, and I know they are willing to dance with me .... I know my SO will be pissed off if somebody ( a leader or a follower ) chose to disrespect that situation, and insist on asking either one of us.
I do not mind. I know there will be plenty of time to circulate and "develop my tango", as we both normally love to do exactly that, and dance with other people.
But this is an entirely different situation, because you are choosing not to circulate. You said it yourself.. you do not mind sitting out with him.

I would have a problem with my partner getting pissed off that someone asked me to dance on a night when he didn't want to do much dancing himself. Pissed because they ask? Really? You are both free to say no, that you are not circulating. Maybe it's a semantics thing, and I misunderstood just what the situation is, but I find it it a little bizarre to react that strongly to someone asking for a dance.

If they are insisting on the dance after a polite refusal, that's something else... maybe that's what you meant.

But just asking because they don't realize you are not interested that night? (especially after being in the mood on plenty of other occasions!) Seems like getting pissed that they ask at all is a little extreme. Most people aren't mind readers.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
When we go out, my husband usually does not dance very much, because he just doesn't want to--he doesn't feel confident, and he's kind of a snob and only wants to dance with certain people. He knows I like to dance a lot and has given me his blessing to dance as much or as long as I wish, and he'll hang out and chat and we'll go when I'm ready...although I try not to stay out too late if he doesn't seem to be having a good time. So, we sit together but try not to hang on each other, and sometimes we'll sit apart to make it clear it's OK to ask me. I do seem to get more invitations when he's not there, though.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
But this is an entirely different situation, because you are choosing not to circulate. You said it yourself.. you do not mind sitting out with him.

I would have a problem with my partner getting pissed off that someone asked me to dance on a night when he didn't want to do much dancing himself. Pissed because they ask? Really? You are both free to say no, that you are not circulating. Maybe it's a semantics thing, and I misunderstood just what the situation is, but I find it it a little bizarre to react that strongly to someone asking for a dance.

If they are insisting on the dance after a polite refusal, that's something else... maybe that's what you meant.

But just asking because they don't realize you are not interested that night? (especially after being in the mood on plenty of other occasions!) Seems like getting pissed that they ask at all is a little extreme. Most people aren't mind readers.
I agree!
 
Perhaps it is exaggerated, but it is what it is. Of course I am talking about obvious situations. For example, once we sat on a couch talking, a guy came by, grabbed my hand, and ask me to a dance. Another time, we stood together at the edge of the floor, about to go on, and at that moment some guy approached us, and asked me to dance. My SO sees that kind of behavior as a lack of sensibility, a result of people not caring, paying attention, and basically that's what it was.

I shall say, I do not like it, either, when people ask when I am very obviously not interested, but I understand that not everyone has brilliant social skills, and even ones who do get in awkward situations from time to time.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it is exaggerated, but it is what it is. Of course I am talking about obvious situations. For example, once we sat on a couch talking, a guy came by, grabbed my hand, and ask me to a dance.
I think I see what you mean.. but to me, these situations are less about having respect for your partner (as your partner) than about having respect in general. Even if you were sitting on the couch talking to a galpal, it's rude to just come up and grab your hand while you are in conversation.

I'm all for showing people respect when you approach them for a dance, especially if they are in conversation.. one should also respect the other person in the conversation (perhaps by prefacing the invitation with an apology for perhaps interrupting, or at least acknowledging the presence of the other person)

I just don't see the need for different, additional, or special rules for when the two people approached happen to be romantically involved.
 
I think I see what you mean.. but to me, these situations are less about having respect for your partner (as your partner) than about having respect in general. Even if you were sitting on the couch talking to a galpal, it's rude to just come up and grab your hand while you are in conversation.

I'm all for showing people respect when you approach them for a dance, especially if they are in conversation.. one should also respect the other person in the conversation (perhaps by prefacing the invitation with an apology for perhaps interrupting, or at least acknowledging the presence of the other person)
I agree. It is all about paying attention, and respecting others feelings. But I think I also can understand how a guy, who is protective of his partner may take, perhaps even unconsciously, the behavior that crosses his partner's boundaries in his presence, as disrespectful to him, too.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
I also can understand how a guy, who is protective of his partner may take, perhaps even unconsciously, the behavior that crosses his partner's boundaries in his presence, as disrespectful to him, too.
(emphasis mine)

I can understand that as well. But I don't think that's what was being discussed. It was about asking a guy if it's ok with him to dance with his date. There wasn't any mention of how asking her to dance crossed HER boundaries.. It was all about whether it crossed HIS boundaries for her to dance with the ask'er.

You're talking about being protective (in line with her feelings). The aspect of the discussion that bothered me was condoning (by giving him power of veto) being possessive, regardless of her feelings.

Totally different.
 
You're talking about being protective (in line with her feelings). The aspect of the discussion that bothered me was condoning (by giving him power of veto) being possessive, regardless of her feelings.

Totally different.
My point was that from the outside, it might look the same at times.

I am not sure asking "the partner's permission" is the best way to go about it, either. In the absence of traditional milonga setting, I believe it is rather what is described in posts #447 and 451 -- observe the couple's behavior and act accordingly.
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
Asking the woman's partner/date for permission to dance with her is in one way polite, but in another way patronizing.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
Asking the woman's partner/date for permission to dance with her is in one way polite, but in another way patronizing.
that's why there's no such thing as correct behaviour. I ask her but I will include a male companion in my gaze ie i will ackowledge him. I dont mind a refusal. But I have often seen the guy (not an s.o.) looked pissed off, because either he wanted to dance with her, or was chatting her up. Tough matey, I came to dance and she's accepted my invitation.

We are living neither in Japan or Edwardian Britain. Manners are simple respect for how another responds to a request.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
Asking the woman's partner/date for permission to dance with her is in one way polite, but in another way patronizing.
FWIW, I ask for permission to ask her to dance. Then I'll ask the woman if she would like to dance with me (although often the woman will get up to dance with me before I've actually asked her).
 
This is reason #34 why I like the cabeceo. It seems to prevent 99% of these problems from occurring.

Of course, we still work hard on taking/giving offence in the remaining 1% of situations...
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
Last night one of my regular favorites came over and cabaceoed me, and as I stood up to go dance, he nodded and sort of waved at my husband. Kind of a "Hi" and "thanks for letting me dance with your wife" gesture. I thought that was polite and a nice compromise to what we've been talking about.
 
....

If a man asked me to dance, and I was aware that his partner got upset if he danced with anyone other than her, I would still accept the invitation to dance. It's for them to sort out between themselves, not for me to help them resolve in their relationship. I'm there to dance, not play marital counselor. And I certainly don't owe other women my automatic loyalty (just because I'm also female) for behavior I disagree with.
....
This remind me an experience: I have a tango friend, a lady. We used to sit together if we happen to be at the same milonga. Lately, she has a regular partner. Out of habit, I still stayed around her when we weren't dancing. Her partner invited me. My lady friend was very upset for that. She felt that I intentionally hang around in order to get an invitation. It was not true and I was really shocked. I had no intention to dance with him at all, even though he is a good leader. I don't ever try to dance with every good leader.

Well, ever since, I stay away from any leader who is around his regular partner.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I really don't want leaders asking my date's permission to dance with me. There are plenty of ways a couple who isn't circulating can make that obvious. Approaching them when they are sitting together and asking the date rather than the person you wish to dance with is unnecessary, IMO. I don't do it when I want to dance with a leader. Why should leaders do it when they want to dance with me?
You are most certainly not the only one. I'm 33 years old and my own person. I have a career, I own a house, I have retirement funds and life insurance. I run my own g.d. life, and I don't need to be given permission to dance by anyone. And screw the person who thinks I do. It's not polite--it's demeaning, and patronizing, and anachronistic, and implies that I am not allowed to make my own decisions. Eff that. This is 2011--ask the woman directly already!
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
I 2nd this. Asking the man if he minds if you ask the lady demonstrates respect for him. It is NOT asking him if she will dance with you, if it's OK with him you then ask her, she will then decide.

This is where the cabeceo has an advantage, if the lady acknowledges the cabeceo she will stand & approach the dance floor as you approach her, so you don't have to interact with others that she may be seated with.

p.s. - for those not familiar with American slang "show props" = show proper respect (that's what Aretha Franklin sang about R.E.S.P.E.C.T.)
What about respect for HER?! How is using the cabeceo to ask her to dance, where she doesn't have to interact, and less "disrespectful" of her date than asking her directly. If you ask her directly, you're still not interacting with others she's seated with...you're interacting with her and only her.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering how those of you who advocate asking the woman's partner would deal with the situation of the partner being unhappy that his date dances with others, but she wants to? Is your rule about showing respect to the other guy going to superceed her desire to dance with you if you asked her? Is it your place to "respect" him when she is trying to simply go about her business developing her tango, rather than be controlled by his jealousy?

I understand that asking the man is sort of a guy code of respect, but what happens when he clearly doesn't want you to, and she jumps up and accepts the offer of a dance? Do you walk away from her because HE said no?

It seems that asking the partner is really just a formality like asking "How are you" and expecting "Fine" rather than the truth. You don't REALLY expect him to say no? But if he does, does his wish for her to dance only with him takes priority over her wish to dance as she pleases?

Has this scenario ever happened to any of you (where the girl accepts even though the guy is declining or obviously unhappy about it) Do you only ask the man when you are sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is her significant other and not just someone she might have ended up sitting with? Maybe she would like to get away from him! Is it only husbands? Boyfriends? Dates? If someone that you normally dance with shows up with a date one night, do you extend this "courtesy" to him, thus allowing him to decide that she won't be dancing with you?

See, this is why some of us have a problem with this practice... you can say it's about respect for the other guy, but what it does in the long run is put the woman's fate in the hands of a man, rather than in her own hands. I didn't want to get into the whole sexist "property" thing, because my initial reaction was based on the fact that my partner would always say yes, and this happened to me primarily when someone I had been avoiding approached us because it was that guy's only chance to get near me. It was then awkward for me to turn the guy down after successfully steering clear of him all night.

However, the opposite scenario is even more disturbing.. that you would not dance with someone if her partner/date didn't want her to dance with others... as though it is "respectful" for you to enable him to control her.

If a man asked me to dance, and I was aware that his partner got upset if he danced with anyone other than her, I would still accept the invitation to dance. It's for them to sort out between themselves, not for me to help them resolve in their relationship. I'm there to dance, not play marital counselor. And I certainly don't owe other women my automatic loyalty (just because I'm also female) for behavior I disagree with.

Do you guys think it's reasonable for a woman's date to control who she dances with? If not, why would you enable him to do so? By asking his permission, you are giving him the power to say no, and thus power over her.

The whole thing only works if it really is just a formality, and the men always say yes. When they say no despite the woman's wishes, and you "respect" that, you are respecting a man's right to control women's behavior...

Does the "guy code" demand that you stay loyal to other men even when they are behaving in a way that you don't condone?
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! You said exactly what was on my mind. Ex.act.ly!

Eesh. It's not even 7am and this topic has me riled.:rolleyes:
 

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