What do Women Want?

etp777

Active Member
#81
not AT world, ballroom, but was out after our stduio party with 6 or 7 female students after party to grab drinks. I know they all listed a knowledge of a good lead, musicality, and confidence when discussing their favorite leaders at the party. I doubt their requests would be much different in AT world (though as far as I know these particular women only dance ballroom/swing/salsa). I'm sure none of them would turn down chocolate either. :)
 
#82
What does "resistance" mean?

You guys give me a reality check on this. Is it helpful, or not?

Resistance (1) To oppose - to keep from yeilding to.
The natural tendency to "yield" to a "lead", rather than to set up a natural resistance, is a real problem for new dancers. Resistance is NOT pushing or pulling. It is matching "reaction" to the "action" of the lead. Matching the resistance, from one person's "center" to the other person's "center" is the ideal.
Steve:
This is an EXCELLENT dance defintion. However, it's not explained when the term is used. Most people hear "resistance" and think of the dictionary defintion "The opposition offered by one thing, force, etc., to another." (Webster's Universal College Dictionary).

Think about it. Why would a woman want to resist a lead? Why does a man have to overcome a woman's resistance to the lead? Yet, the word resistance is constantly used.

Dance instructors don't explain the difference between resistance and toned. When I shake hands, I give a firm grip, not a stiff grip. My muscles are toned, not flexed. Very few talk about axis and frame so dancers don't understand body alignment.

I could go on, but it's time for dinner and get ready for dancing tonight, which is ballroom. I'll have to wait until Friday for tango.

Michael
Washington, DC
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#83
Have only been reading the 2 topics in this thread, and not contributing b/c I have some distinct feelings about the music/rhythms/timings that would take us into a whole other discussion (some of you might recall from other threads). But, wanted to say on the other topic, nice post......
I have read this topic listed in workshops in the USA. It's not mysterious and yet it alludes many. It can be misinterpreted to mean a woman can do her own thing in tango, taking the lead when she wants to, or stopping the man in order to express herself. I don't agree based on my experience dancing with milongueros.

A woman can feel empty and cold if she is going through the motions which are led but without transmitting any emotion because she is connected with her partner and the music. She can feel like she is somewhere else rather than in the arms of her partner. Technique doesn't make her a good dancer.

The key is really knowing the music, where it is going, and being in the moment with your partner. Then what he feels and what you feel are the same. The music inspires you to dance. Two bodies move as one. You are giving yourselves to each other in the NOW. No one is thinking steps or technique. Only pure feeling expressed with the music. Your presence is your most important contribution to the partnership.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#84
What's remarkable about this book is that the author has definintions for MANY of the words we use. And they all fit together. I just wonder if they are more useful than the definitions we all seems to carry around with us. I think they are.

CONNECTION In couples dancing... the feeling of resistance between partners that makes an action and a reaction possible.

Yesterday, the dreaded "on my own axis" topic came up. This followed several dances accompanied by pushing on my left hand, and pulling on my right shoulder (and was at a practica).

"I was sort of waiting you you to connect with me."
"I WAS connected to you."
It would have been nice if some of your weight was towards me."
"If my weight was towards you, I would no longer be on my own axis."
"Yes, you would."
"NO, I WOULDN'T"

Also included in the listed definition of RESISTANCE (and left out because of the amount of typing involved!)
(2) Any time one object touches another object there is a degree of "Resistance" created. It is this degree of resistance that becomes important in the dance.
(3) ACTIVE resistance comes in a variety of degrees.
 
#85
Steve:
This is an EXCELLENT dance defintion. However, it's not explained when the term is used. Most people hear "resistance" and think of the dictionary defintion "The opposition offered by one thing, force, etc., to another." (Webster's Universal College Dictionary).

Think about it. Why would a woman want to resist a lead? Why does a man have to overcome a woman's resistance to the lead? Yet, the word resistance is constantly used.

Dance instructors don't explain the difference between resistance and toned. When I shake hands, I give a firm grip, not a stiff grip. My muscles are toned, not flexed. Very few talk about axis and frame so dancers don't understand body alignment.

I could go on, but it's time for dinner and get ready for dancing tonight, which is ballroom. I'll have to wait until Friday for tango.

Michael
Washington, DC
I was taught a simple exercise. Place a plastic CD cover between your left and her right hands with your fingers pointing up so the CD cover is held in place by resistance, no fingers. Now dance keeping your arms in proper dance position. You will find that it takes very little pressure on the CD cover to maintain a connection and gets you an excellent response to your lead. This is all the resistance that is called for in tango and men don't fight with this it's not one sided the resistance is equally shared by both.
 
#87
If a man is off the beat, it is the woman's option to get him back on it. She can delay her step and get him with the music quickly. We dance the music, so not being with it defeats the purpose. Some men don't realize they aren't with the music. If women continue dancing with them, they never learn.
My highlights: These two statements are contradicting each other.

Note: some leads are naturally tone deaf and so cannot and will never hear the beat in the song. They shouldn't be ignored but instead encouraged to keep the steps basic.
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
#92
I was taught a simple exercise. Place a plastic CD cover between your left and her right hands with your fingers pointing up so the CD cover is held in place by resistance, no fingers. Now dance keeping your arms in proper dance position. You will find that it takes very little pressure on the CD cover to maintain a connection and gets you an excellent response to your lead. This is all the resistance that is called for in tango and men don't fight with this it's not one sided the resistance is equally shared by both.
Now, is that amount of resistance supposed to be only in the hand?
 
#93
Now, is that amount of resistance supposed to be only in the hand?
The starting point is in the hand but you feel it all through the arm and into the upper body. When you do this exercise and lets say you lead a back ocho the resistance remains equal to both partners without any force being applied by either one because the goal here is to keep the CD cover between the two of you and remain in the dance position. If you turn to the left she has to follow to keep the cover from falling. If you move her to the right you need to follow her in order to keep the cover from falling,,,so simple but so helpful
Try it it really works
PS you can try it with a non dancer, works with anyone
 

Ampster

Active Member
#94
Now, is that amount of resistance supposed to be only in the hand?

On a side note... In AT, close embrace, the resistance is in the chest (center). You lead/follow with it, and don't need to have any resistance, nor tone in your arms or hands.

The excercise here is to have a sheet of letter paper in between you and your partner's chest. Enough resistance is applied to keep it from falling.
 
#95
On a side note... In AT, close embrace, the resistance is in the chest (center). You lead/follow with it, and don't need to have any resistance, nor tone in your arms or hands.

The excercise here is to have a sheet of letter paper in between you and your partner's chest. Enough resistance is applied to keep it from falling.
Ampsters right,
this exercise is used to prefect the open embrace.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#96
Yeah, but that's kind of only useful as a starting point.

Open embrace, or whatever anyone wants to call it, obviously makes that a moot point. And apilado will, naturally, involve a lot more pressure.

Also, IME, the pressure varies throughout the course of the lead. It builds as the intention is led, and then reverts to some "base level of resistance" as the weight change happens. Not a lot, but enough.

Also, the connection through the hand varies as well. It can be nonexistent in close embrace with simple steps, to the point of not needing that point of connection at all. But with other things--like fast pivots or boleos, particularly done in open--the resistance can be much greater, since you end up working from that connection point. (Christ, you have no idea how much $$$ it took for that silly concept to sink in. :rolleyes:)
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#97
And apilado will, naturally, involve a lot more pressure.

Also, IME, the pressure varies throughout the course of the lead. It builds as the intention is led, and then reverts to some "base level of resistance" as the weight change happens. Not a lot, but enough.

Also, the connection through the hand varies as well. It can be nonexistent in close embrace with simple steps, to the point of not needing that point of connection at all. But with other things--like fast pivots or boleos, particularly done in open--the resistance can be much greater, since you end up working from that connection point. (Christ, you have no idea how much $$$ it took for that silly concept to sink in. )
Hurrah!!

(except for the having to spend a bunch of money part!)
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#98
On a side note... In AT, close embrace, the resistance is in the chest (center). You lead/follow with it, and don't need to have any resistance, nor tone in your arms or hands.

The excercise here is to have a sheet of letter paper in between you and your partner's chest. Enough resistance is applied to keep it from falling.
more important is what is written on the letter....;)
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#99
Let me add with the experience I had on Sunday, when I basically "left the woman alone", and she didn't try to "connect" with me, she did all her steps just fine.
But, it didn't feel like she was dancing with me.
And we come back to the "non embrace embrace", but in open.
 

jantango

Active Member
Yeah, but that's kind of only useful as a starting point.

Open embrace, or whatever anyone wants to call it, obviously makes that a moot point. And apilado will, naturally, involve a lot more pressure.

Also, IME, the pressure varies throughout the course of the lead. It builds as the intention is led, and then reverts to some "base level of resistance" as the weight change happens. Not a lot, but enough.

Also, the connection through the hand varies as well. It can be nonexistent in close embrace with simple steps, to the point of not needing that point of connection at all. But with other things--like fast pivots or boleos, particularly done in open--the resistance can be much greater, since you end up working from that connection point. (Christ, you have no idea how much $$$ it took for that silly concept to sink in. :rolleyes:)

Relax your body, breath, listen to the music, and do what comes naturally in the moment with your partner. Someone wanted to take your money and made it so complicated.

So much analyzing in tango prevents people from dancing what they feel in the music. They are worried about doing it wrong for the teacher. Do what feels right for yourself.
 

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