Where are the men to tango with at my beautiful 64 years of age? :)

#21
When we take our students to Buenos Aires, there is an option for them to hire a taxi dancer for a milonga. It is always spelled out very clearly if he would be there exclusively for one person ( and for how many hours) or share his attention between several ladies, and how many of them exactly. Also, it is explicitly stated what is included in the price --- transportation to/from and entrance to the venue, drinks and refreshments inside, etc... and what is paid extra, and by whom. All that has to be made clear when you hire someone, so it does not "just happen" to you.
 
#22
Become a doll for practice for beginners.

Visit pre-milonga, beginners' and intermediate classes and make yourself available even to the clumsiest leaders. Never give advice, never say a harsh word, always smile and encourage a leader.
If you notice that a leader from your class is rejected by a young princess at a milonga, wait a little bit and ask him to dance with you.

I always appreciate ladies who didn't mind dancing with me when I was a beginner. And if there is a choice, I always invite a lady with whom I went to a class.
 
#23
Being a practice dummy and making yourself available to the clumsiest leaders might take a terrible toll on your body. It is not easy on the young and healthy, and when you are past 60 it is very possible to end with a permanent damage from one "clumsy leader", and not be able to dance with anyone for months, years, or ever again! Although going to classes and practicas, being nice, respectful and social is a great advice to get partners, let's not go to the desperate extremes here... safety and self respect first.
 
#24
Follower, why did you choose to be a practice dummy? If you don't like the lead what are your motives to accept the invitation?

There are rhinos in both groups: there are rhinos among leaders and there are rhinos among followers so why don't we stop to pick up/ point out only leaders in these situations?

For years ago I used to participate (as leader) in the beginner courses to role balance the group but I stopped because it took 2-4 days to recover, to get rid of the backpain and ache in the rest of my body.

It is not about lacking the strength but about balancing the sudden uncontrolled movements having impact on a delicate back placed in any leaders body.
 
#25
Being a practice dummy and making yourself available to the clumsiest leaders might take a terrible toll on your body. It is not easy on the young and healthy, and when you are past 60 it is very possible to end with a permanent damage from one "clumsy leader", and not be able to dance with anyone for months, years, or ever again! Although going to classes and practicas, being nice, respectful and social is a great advice to get partners, let's not go to the desperate extremes here... safety and self respect first.
So, there are leaders, they are just too clumsy and inexperienced for the Princess.
The Princess waits for that advanced leader, preferably, an Argentinian.

If a woman follows wonderfully, she is slim and athletic, it doesn't matter if she has wrinkles on her face. She'll be a pleasure to dance with.

If she says, she can't do turns, boleos, etc because she is ill; she won't be invited.
 
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#26
For years ago I used to participate (as leader) in the beginner courses to role balance the group but I stopped because it took 2-4 days to recover, to get rid of the backpain and ache in the rest of my body.

It is not about lacking the strength but about balancing the sudden uncontrolled movements having impact on a delicate back placed in any leaders body.
I don't talk about complete beginners' classes when really fat people come to learn tango. They can really hurt you. Fortunately, they disappear after a week or so.

I don't know. It's such a pleasure to be the first tango man for a girl, especially, if she came from salsa or bachata.
Dancing with a beginner is a very complicated task, but it's the most important. You can get really good girls.
 
#27
My point was, to say "yes" to a dance with a clumsy inexperienced person kindness and good will are often not enough. It would also require strength and skills. Some seem to ignore that fact. That is actually the main reason people say "no" to a dance, they are not strong enough to bear it... and not them being snobbish and mean as some might perceive it.
 
#28
My point was, to say "yes" to a dance with a clumsy inexperienced person kindness and good will are often not enough. It would also require strength and skills. Some seem to ignore that fact. That is actually the main reason people say "no" to a dance, they are not strong enough to bear it... and not them being snobbish and mean as some might perceive it.
An older lady can say "No" to a stranger only once. The stranger will never approach her again.

A hot young girl can say "No", and the stranger can come half a year later with improved skills and ask her again and again.

And he will always invite that unpopular lady who said "Yes" and became his doll for experimenting.

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An unpopular lady should try private lessons with a male teacher who also comes to milongas and dances with his students.
 
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#29
An older lady can say "No" to a stranger only once. The stranger will never approach her again.
This is not necessarily true, and even if it is -- too bad, then. The last thing any lady needs is to agree against her will and under the pressure to something she does not want to do. Self respect is more important than dancing with some spiteful guy who cannot take no for an answer.



And he will always invite that unpopular lady who said "Yes" and became his doll for experimenting.
That is not always true, either. A lot of leaders practice with less busy partners, get better and move on to dancing with whom they deem more desirable for whatever reason. And they are well in their right to do so, by the way.

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An unpopular lady should try private lessons with a male teacher who also comes to milongas and dances with his students.
This advice, I agree with.
 
#33
That is actually the main reason people say "no" to a dance, they are not strong enough to bear it... and not them being snobbish and mean as some might perceive it.
If a lady has no strength, she can't be a good follower.

I can't describe exactly how it feels. When I push a good follower, she slightly pushes me back with her hands and body giving me feedback; so, I know where she is.

A bad follower doesn't provide response and absorbs my movements. Then she doesn't feel me and tries to guess steps.

It usually happens with ladies over 50.
I notice it immediately when I hold a woman's arm. It often has no muscles as she has never exercised in her life.
 
#34
Everyone has some strength and skills. A maestro/maestra is strong and skillful enough dancer to dance with about anyone on any level and be safe. Still, only to certain extent, but quite a long one. A newcomer person obviously does not have the same strength and skills. So he/she has to be careful in their choice of partners while building up that strength. Safety first.
There are great follower over 50 (a lot of maestras and milongueras who are older, some are currently in their 70-s and a delight to dance with), and there not so great followers in their 20's who do not hold their own and guess steps. It is not the matter of age. One can become a great dancer at any age.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#36
If a lady has no strength, she can't be a good follower.

I can't describe exactly how it feels. When I push a good follower, she slightly pushes me back with her hands and body giving me feedback; so, I know where she is.

A bad follower doesn't provide response and absorbs my movements. Then she doesn't feel me and tries to guess steps.

It usually happens with ladies over 50.
I notice it immediately when I hold a woman's arm. It often has no muscles as she has never exercised in her life.
Have to disagree. One of the best followers in my area is over 80 and she's a tiny, frail, slip of a thing. She looks like she'd break if you breathed on her too hard. ALL the leaders love dancing with her.... even the ones who usually only dance with the young, skinny, pretty girls. She's amazing and the envy of most of us!

Even followers who give resistance can be bad at following and end up guessing steps. Followers who are light and easy to move can be quite good. Connection doesn't have to be heavy. Responsiveness doesn't require strength; it requires technique and correct use of the core. (the whole body actually)

A local leader once complained to a visiting teacher that he couldn't tell where certain followers were because they were "too light". Interestingly, the followers he was complaining about were considered among the top followers in the community. The teacher said:

"They are where you put them.. it's not your job to move them there.. it's their job to move themselves. You need to learn better how to feel their movement"

Not saying that's what's going on in your case, but your assertion that followers must have muscular strength to be good followers is way off base. Your preferences do not determine who is or isn't any good in such an absolute way.
 
#37
This may be true for you, but it's not for me. My memory simply isn't that long, unless the follower did something to make the rejection memorable.
Then how many rejections can you tolerate? 2, 3, 4?

Do you approach again and again 10 times an unpopular lady who sits through a milonga and rejects almost everybody when you can approach 10 other ladies?

Usually, one rejection is enough to know that she is not interested in you.
A hot woman is a completely different case.
 
#38
Have to disagree. One of the best followers in my area is over 80 and she's a tiny, frail, slip of a thing. She looks like she'd break if you breathed on her too hard. ALL the leaders love dancing with her.... even the ones who usually only dance with the young, skinny, pretty girls. She's amazing and the envy of most of us!
...
Not saying that's what's going on in your case, but your assertion that followers must have muscular strength to be good followers is way off base. Your preferences do not determine who is or isn't any good in such an absolute way.
There is no contradiction.

The best followers are the tiniest. The best followers, whom I've met, were ballerinas, like the topic's author. They felt all my slightest intentions. If your 80-year-old lady is a ballerina and she has been using ballet exercises through all her life, she should be very good.

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I just wanted to mention that some women should spend more time on learning how to follow instead of memorizing steps. Also they should exercise and develop muscles.
 
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#40
I sense some cognitive bias here. :) Being a good follow or light on one's feet has very little do with how much a person actually weights. It has everything to do how she holds and shifts her weight in the dance.
 

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