Why am fixated on number of patterns?

IndyLady

Well-Known Member
#21
And when it comes to pleasing whoever is watching, it's not the variety of steps I want to show off. It's quality of movement, style, and connection to my partner.
And this is what most people notice anyways. Unless someone is watching you like a sniper, they aren't consciously counting and tracking which patterns you're doing and whether any of them were repeated.
 

cornutt

Well-Known Member
#22
What Jennifer said: 5 partner, 4 self, 1 audience. Heck, on a crowded floor, it's difficult for anyone to watch you anyway. Now and then, my AP and I will say to each other, "Let's show off a bit!", and then we'll do some of the fancier stuff we know. But on average, for a given dance there are only 5-6 patterns I use on a regular basis, and 1-2 additional ones I'll use with more advanced partners who are familiar with me. Heck, in Viennese waltz, I only ever do natural and reverse turns (with or w/o changes), fans, and change of place. And the last two are just because you need a spot to catch your breath now and then. :D
 
#23
...But on average, for a given dance there are only 5-6 patterns I use on a regular basis, and 1-2 additional ones ...
I want to confirm something here. When you say "only 5-6 patterns" are you talking about 5-6 patterns, or 5-6 patterns and variations of thereof? Here is what I suspect is happening here (on the forum) - when I say CBL - I mean a simple, vanilla CBL, but I suspect that when y'all (more experienced dancers) say "cross-body lead", you mean any of the 20 variations of the CBL: CBL with insider turn, CBL with outside turn, CBL with lead's inside turn, CBL with lead's outside turn, CBL with follows and lead turns, CBL into a wrap, CBL into a shadow, CBL with double turn, etc. @cornutt, I want you to confirm that when you say "only 5-6 patterns" you are talking about 5-6 *same* moves, not 10 variations of the each basic turn - which now turns into 50-60 distinct moves.
 

snapdancer

Well-Known Member
#24
In my opinion, a plain vanilla CBL is a different figure from any of the variations you listed.

I believe that you should master the simpler patterns before getting too deep into more complicated variations. Mastery (to allow social dancing) includes the following
-- can tweak the ending alignments to help fit into the room
-- can tweak the size of the figure as needed to fit into a crowded social floor.
-- leads are clear enough to make it easier for a less experienced follow to dance with you and recognize your tweaks
--- and you can recover from misunderstandings by the follower (maybe her fault, maybe your fault, maybe fault shared) and still keep dancing.
 

cornutt

Well-Known Member
#26
@snapdancer, I agree with you. I just want @cornutt to confirm he also sees CBL as different pattern from CBL w/ inside turn.
Well, actually, not really... It depends on the dance. In some dances, I have some variations I'll put on things. In other dances, not so much. It does depend some on what one is willing to term a "variation" as opposed to being a completely different pattern. To take an example: I'll lead Cuban walks in rumba. At the end of it, when she is coming back to my frame, I might choose to instead lead her to a reverse turn and turn it back to the walk formation, and lead her to walk one more bar (or rarely, 3 more bars) before I bring her back to frame. On the opposite extreme, in cha-cha, there is a bronze shadow positions and a silver shadow positions (both as defined by DVIDA), and they are way different. I consider them different patterns.

Then, just to make things more confusing... in WCS, I'll lead a half whip. At the end, I may lead her back to her anchor using a natural turn, or a reverse turn, or neither (just finish the figure). Are those variations, or separate patterns? I never really thought about it.
 
#27
@cornutt, Since we are in Salsa forum I am probably talking about Salsa only.
When you say "5-6 patterns", do you consider CBL and CBL w/ inside turn different patterns, or is it the same pattern? I.e. would you count those two variations as 2 out of 5-6, or just 1 out of 5-6?
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#29
I probably also lead 5-6 unique patterns in a typical social dance song, with variations on some of those or combining them in different ways.
 
#30
@twnkltoz, the question is how flexible is your definition of a "variation". Adding a hand styling - that's one thing, but adding a turn to a move - I think that's not a variation, but a new move now.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#31
@twnkltoz, the question is how flexible is your definition of a "variation". Adding a hand styling - that's one thing, but adding a turn to a move - I think that's not a variation, but a new move now.
I disagree, but whatever. Again, you're putting too much thought into this. If you spent as much time learning to dance as you did arguing about how many steps you need to learn and coming up with complicated formulas, you'd be just fine.
 
#33
@twnkltoz, I'm only asking for clarification so I understand your answer. You said "5-6 unique patterns" but if we don't have common understanding of what " a unique pattern" is - then your answer isn't helping me to understand. It is not necessary for us to "agree" on definition of the pattern, I just need to know what you mean by it.

Please.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#34
@twnkltoz, I'm only asking for clarification so I understand your answer. You said "5-6 unique patterns" but if we don't have common understanding of what " a unique pattern" is - then your answer isn't helping me to understand. It is not necessary for us to "agree" on definition of the pattern, I just need to know what you mean by it.

Please.
By unique, I mean completely different. I then add variations on those to make it seem like there's more variety.
 

snapdancer

Well-Known Member
#36
Would you consider CBL w/ inside turn, and CBL w/ outside turn completely different patterns, or a variation of the same pattern?
The word "unique" strongly implies "completely different". Further amplified by her statement about "adding variations".

But maybe not, who knows?

But in the end, how is that important to you? If she answers "completely different", how will your future actions differ from if she says "variation of the same pattern"? You've been given some advice in this thread, I would consider a course of action that works for you, focus more on improving your dancing, and less on parsing sentences.
 

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