Why do people give up salsa?

#61
Thanks, well Ya know, I try with my emoticons. They're so cute, Lol.


from Pygmalion
The salsa scenes I've experienced have been quite snobby/cliquish in spots, it's true. But, from my view, that's been at least as much about whether you can actually dance (LOL) and whether you're perceived as an insider or outsider. Once you get past that whole inside/outside thing, it's about whether you can dance. At least, that's what's I've seen. But I acknowledge that every scene is different. :? I hope race never becomes an issue that drives any of us away. Just find somebody positive to dance with, and keep on dancing. Yes? :wink: 8)
Yes and as I stated before, I've been doing that....
dancing with good people.
I've experienced the same thing you have and
have found NY less snobby/cliquish.
Also as I said before, I've been asked several times
to perform. So I know I'm a good dancer as teachers
and friends have complimented me on my dancing.
Salsa isn't the first kind of
dancing I've done. I've danced R&B all my life
and have performed hip-hop.

...On my way to class. Will tune in tomorrow. :wink:
 
#62
ArtsySalsera said:
I've experienced the same thing you have and
have found NY less snobby/cliquish.
OMG!!! To think I have it good, I now truly feel for you guys when you say cliquish! I didn't think it could get any worse than snobby manhattan. now where are those emoticons when you need them...
 
#63
good to meet you too pygmalion :)
it's good that you and Artsy are very positive (and calm ;- ), maybe one day I'll get there too. For now I consider myself more proactive than positive, ie I tend to overcompensate and overachieve inorder to be accepted at the normal/same level as other advanced dancers and to excercise more control.
Fortunately the very thing that makes a small ignorant minority dissrepect me, my africanness, is the same quality that gives me the natural rhythm, musicality and style that others pay $$ and practice time to acquire
That's prob a big reason why I haven't and won't quit the scene anytime soon, the music is in my blood and I'm proud of it
 
#64
africana, pygmalion & everyone else:

I've certainly felt the racism you've discussed in my scene as well.

- African-American men who feel you should be grateful for the opportunity dance with them. This was especially obvious when I was very new and I noticed the guys has no problem dancing with beginner non-Black women. I, on the other hand, HAD to get good before I found regular partners.

(I've not forgotten the offenders :evil: , not one. I just haven't figured out to do with my anger.)

- Latinos who only wish to dance with white and asian women or latinas (any nationality, just not darker complected Black women) regardless of skill level.
 
#65
aimerrouge said:
- African-American men who feel you should be grateful for the opportunity dance with them. This was especially obvious when I was very new and I noticed the guys has no problem dancing with beginner non-Black women. I, on the other hand, HAD to get good before I found regular partners.

(I've not forgotten the offenders :evil: , not one. I just haven't figured out to do with my anger.)

- Latinos who only wish to dance with white and asian women or latinas (any nationality, just not darker complected Black women) regardless of skill level.
Yep been there done that. But I find they don't matter too much these days because when you advance enough these guys are pretty much beneath your dance level and you will actually not want to dance with them unless they corner you and ask nicely, and they do ask me now (sweet revenge)

this is prob the one area in my dance psychology where I haven't matured as much because I may be open to dancing with anyone and I'm very friendly in person, but these experiences from my first years I have never forgotten. I'm not angry as much anymore, because I have much better partners to choose from and who choose to choose me.
But I still see it happening to other black women who are new...
 
#66
africana said:
this is prob the one area in my dance psychology where I haven't matured as much because I may be open to dancing with anyone and I'm very friendly in person, but these experiences from my first years I have never forgotten. I'm not angry as much anymore, because I have much better partners to choose from and who choose to choose me.
But I still see it happening to other black women who are new...
How do you go about helping to make them feel welcomed?
 
#67
Pacion said:
africana said:
this is prob the one area in my dance psychology where I haven't matured as much because I may be open to dancing with anyone and I'm very friendly in person, but these experiences from my first years I have never forgotten. I'm not angry as much anymore, because I have much better partners to choose from and who choose to choose me.
But I still see it happening to other black women who are new...
How do you go about helping to make them feel welcomed?
well this issue is about the dance experience of a racial minority. So perhaps the question should be turned around?
 
#68
Pacion said:
How do you go about helping to make them feel welcomed?
My experience has been, that the women notice "something" but aren't sure about what it is. We find a quiet corner and they admit they notice a color preference but didn't want to say anything. No Black Woman likes being labled the Bitter Black Witch. Once we establish their perception is reality, I point out the color friendly fellows.

Often, just having someone to talk to, who really understands, makes a world of difference.
 
#69
wow, what a wonderful thread, and so many interesting and insightful posts...

just wanted to register that i'm reading along with a lot of interest and respect. i am learning a lot from you all.
 
#70
pygmalion said:
Ah. Cool. Got a few friends there, or from there, too... and just found out that there's a Cameroonian lady in my new neighborhood, within walking distance. Pretty cool. She can hook me up with where to buy some hard-to-find foods.

*shakes head* What topic is this, again? Don't remember. But nice to me you. Glad you're here. :D
Cooking Forums, Pygmalion! Let's have some of those great African food recipes!!!! :D
 
#71
africana said:
Yep been there done that. But I find they don't matter too much these days because when you advance enough these guys are pretty much beneath your dance level and you will actually not want to dance with them unless they corner you and ask nicely, and they do ask me now (sweet revenge)
I hope you don't mean it's OK to snub less advanced leaders because now you are a better dancer? That would be more than a little ironic.
 
#74
Wow, I thought it was just here, africana, there are some black british males like that, but I don't really come into contact with them really, as I dance cuban salsa, it's mostly Cubans I get this from.


aimerrouge said:
africana, pygmalion & everyone else:

I've certainly felt the racism you've discussed in my scene as well.

- African-American men who feel you should be grateful for the opportunity dance with them. This was especially obvious when I was very new and I noticed the guys has no problem dancing with beginner non-Black women. I, on the other hand, HAD to get good before I found regular partners.

- Latinos who only wish to dance with white and asian women or latinas (any nationality, just not darker complected Black women) regardless of skill level.
Yes yes yes aimerrouge, I've been there too. In fact, I now go up to these men, and asked them to dance, and they'll have that 'oh if I must' look on their face. When we start dancing, they start smiling, and then they'll usually ask me if I'm Cuban, where did I learn, I dance like I'm from Santiago blah blah blah. The dance ends, he says thanks you, and then they'l do 2 things. 1, decide that I must fancy them and give me the hard come on or 2, talk to me like a friend and NEVER ask me to dance. :roll:

My experience has been, that the women notice "something" but aren't sure about what it is. We find a quiet corner and they admit they notice a color preference but didn't want to say anything. No Black Woman likes being labled the Bitter Black Witch. Once we establish their perception is reality, I point out the color friendly fellows
It's so sad to see though isn't it. I thought like this to at first, I didn't want to be seen as the one 'bringing race into it'.

from Pygmalion
The salsa scenes I've experienced have been quite snobby/cliquish in spots, it's true. But, from my view, that's been at least as much about whether you can actually dance (LOL) and whether you're perceived as an insider or outsider. Once you get past that whole inside/outside thing, it's about whether you can dance. At least, that's what's I've seen. But I acknowledge that every scene is different. I hope race never becomes an issue that drives any of us away. Just find somebody positive to dance with, and keep on dancing. Yes?
That what it was like when I started, maybe it still is in NY style. I try to be positive, in fact if you saw me on the dancefloor, you wouldn't think I have a care in the world, but it hurts.

I don't think I could give up though. As someone else said, it's the scene, not the music.
 
#75
Sagitta said:
africana said:
it's really very simple: only the players get played
Good to know... :) So this relatively inexperienced dancer has a chance if he happens to be in your neck of the woods?
but of course!
I'm not evil and snubbish (that would be the easiest conclusion to make), it's just that I have learned to grow a tough exterior in order to survive a non-ideal world
 

pygmalion

Well-Known Member
#76
I was thinking that quitting would be inevitable, for some people. Folks get so wrapped up in salsa that at least a few burning out is bound to happen. :?
 
#78
I am sometimes snubbed by latinos here(mostly the dance instructors) who think that I think I am better than they are, most likely stemming from where I come from. They'll ask all the pretty Japanese beginners to dacne, but snub me! :?
 
#79
borikensalsero said:
When a person is addicted to salsa it has more to do with culture, religion, history, interpersonal relationships, the music, the dance, to me alchemy, etc, etc.
Yeah, except that when someone brags about 'my salsa addiction' they are not talking about the fact that they sit around digging through old Maelo CDs and comparing it to early century plena recordings, they are talking about the fact that they are physically in a crowded club until 4 in the morning trying to do cross-body leads. It's a sign of the North American illness of too much leasure time.

Did I say that Ricans and Cubans don't live the lifestyle? No. I said that Ricans and Cubans don't go to the clubs every day. I can't think of anyone that feels, thinks or understands the music and it's roots spiritually and culturally than the Cubans, but they simply don't hang around bars. You can have Pupy blasting all day at home and live and love the music, but you are not necessarily dancing it at the clubs, or taking lessons.

When you overdo the club scene that much, it is no longer special. It is just part of your every day routine. It's like being fed caviar every day, you don't appreciate it as much and get bored. You seriously want me to believe that you can go out to a club until 2 in the morning every night and be still be an effective UI designer? I don't buy it.
 
#80
africana said:
good to meet you too pygmalion :)
it's good that you and Artsy are very positive (and calm ;- ), maybe one day I'll get there too. For now I consider myself more proactive than positive, ie I tend to overcompensate and overachieve inorder to be accepted at the normal/same level as other advanced dancers and to excercise more control.
Fortunately the very thing that makes a small ignorant minority dissrepect me, my africanness, is the same quality that gives me the natural rhythm, musicality and style that others pay $$ and practice time to acquire
That's prob a big reason why I haven't and won't quit the scene anytime soon, the music is in my blood and I'm proud of it
I guess I'm calm because I can only control myself. I can't do anything about other people's prejudices but I can and always have pushed myself to grow as a dancer (Believe me, I'm proactive too)
. To think of how much I've grown as a dancer because I stuck with it is something to be proud of. I bet your natural rhythm, musicality and style is revered by them.

:!: Carlos Santana himself said that the music comes originally from Africa and I'm sure that that's why we naturally feel akin to it. I've also read this from other sources.

Yes, I know that other influences were mixed into it in the 30, 40's and on to become what is today known as salsa but he spoke of the original form of it coming from Africa.
 

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