Why do these dances look the same?


Active Member
Shouldn't they all look basically the same since they are all from the same family of dance just reblended slightly different?
I'd never heard of "discofox" but looking at it, it's what we in the States call "hustle".

Edited to add, WHO???? dances West Coast Swing to Cha Cha music? The last link to "ceroc"/"modern jive" had me confused. The first part was definitely a cha cha rhythm... The second half was more recognizable. Ceroc is very, very similar to ECS. Two permutations of the same source material developed concurrently on opposite sides of the pond as it were. The very first part of that last clip was reminiscent of Lindy Hop/West Coast Swing/East Coast Swing hybrid. Lots of shared actions amongst them.

When I think of "Jive", I think of International Latin Jive.
Well discofox was orignally an adaption of the Foxtrot for the disco, Modern Jive highly Salsa influenced and East Coast Swing and adaption of the Lindy Hop.

What they share in common is that they were all deliberated 'simplified' to make them easier to learn - that's why one reason why they look so alike.

I'm surprised no one has noticed the obvious. . . . .this couple dancing discofox and are doing something the other 3 are not. What is it?

I've seen that before. Seems to be a ton of crossover there...or more correctly, seems to be a ton of crossover between WCS and pretty much everything else.
Yeah. I've seen it too, but it makes the head spin. My feet will dance cha cha to a cha cha rhythm no matter what. It's ingrained. Music that isn't specific to a dance form? Well that's another story.
I was told (by a respected hustle teacher) that hustle has its roots in Salsa. The fact that the basic footwork resembles single-step ECS done at double time is more by accident than design. Discofox is apparently derived from Foxtrot. I can't confirm either statement, but the end result does pretty much look like the same dance. (London is not the best place to learn either dance.)

I know a little bit more about Modern Jive, but I was not there when it developed in France, or first came to the UK. (I started in 1986.) This is therefore my guess as to how it developed, rather than a fully researched description.

If you do ECS socially, you can replace the triple step with a step-tap, a tap-step, or just a single step. If you do a single step, you will tend to do it on the '1', with a pause on the '2'. This is quite a major change, as you are starting to emphasise the downbeat more that the upbeat. The rock-step then brings it back to finishing on the upbeat, so you don't really notice. But if you start slowing down the music, you don't really need to rockstep to finish moves off and prepare for the next move. So you are left with movements that take 2 beats, but finish on the downbeat instead of the upbeat. That is pretty much the definition of Modern Jive.
It's even more obvious with this couple (who would be WCS champions if they took it up)

They are dancing to the music, and not only a static rhythm/beat. But this is choreographed, while not all of the others are.

And that I think is the reason why the dances look so similar. The moves are very much the same, and since there are a limited moves when dancing break away dances to a 4/4 beat, much of the difference between the dances should be, not the footwork, but the style and music interpretation. And when there is a set style, a sort of a strutting ball room'ish style (English is not my first language, so this is the best way I can describe it), regardless of music, and not much music interpretation anyway, this is the result.

But I will say that the last of the three above videos does not have quite the same way of moving as the two first. It is not the same kind of strutting.

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