Why Men Don’t Understand Sexism In Partner Dancing

flightco

Well-Known Member
Obviously a sensitive subject with many strong feelings in play. I am impressed we can broach such delicate topics on DF with most tempers staying in check, I am also impressed with how articulate some of our members are from both sides of the argument.

I just deleted a series of questions and decided to talk about myself as a lead and a follow.

I do not doubt that my lead might have been forceful a time or two (or three) when I was learning to dance. Someone probably thought I was being sexist when in fact I just didn't know how to dance or lead. Follows might want to consider how insecure a lead can feel when they are very unsure of themselves and know they are making mistakes. (Honestly, I am assuming someone thought this because in reality most follows were extremely kind and gracious with my leading). I have danced with follows who had no idea what they were doing and it was going so bad that I would ask if I could just talk them through the basic step a couple times. Usually if we were doing something like the Rumba Box, a couple times around the box and they could do it for the rest of the song and that is all we did. I would smile and tell them something like "wow, you are really getting the hang of this, I hope you stick with it." On the few times I did this the follows seemed genuinely happy with my offer. I know this is a serious breach of etiquette but would those of you who feel the article was spot on consider it sexist too? If you do, what about the follows who did the same for me when I was starting out who I am very grateful to, were they sexist?

I like to lead and follow and the best WCS I have ever done was with a lady from the studio who was a great dancer in both roles, she led and I followed and we were doing things I could never lead, might have been my best dance ever.

Sometimes at a group lesson when there are more leads than follows, I will follow. Occasionally the instructor will say ladies, rotate (or whatever she happens to be saying to the follows). Then she says I mean ladies and Mike; I just laugh and tell her not to worry about it we all know what she means. I sometimes think people try too hard to get offended, but I am coming from the place of a white male so I realize I may not know where someone else is coming from.

I agree with Indy Lady about the work place. Things do seem equal up to a certain level. The women and men at my level make exactly the same and have the same opportunity for commission and there are often more ladies than men on stage at the end of the year. Yet at a couple levels above me there are very few women; usually one at each level or division while there are several men. I will not speculate the reason for this because it would only be speculation, nevertheless, it does happen this way.
 
Do men talk about women? I wish they did, so I could get someone to admit that there's a strong preference for an attractive, inexperienced lady in a skirt over the obviously more experienced, short-haired lady wearing pants (all else equal)... :)
Men definitely do talk about women. Most of our topics are about her ability to follow and whether she is a pleasant person to dance with.

Of course we will probably discuss the cuties in the skirts first but that is probably because they are new and us guys know nothing about their dancing skills.
 

davedove

Well-Known Member
I sometimes think people try too hard to get offended, but I am coming from the place of a white male so I realize I may not know where someone else is coming from.
I too think that some people are just looking to be offended. Instead of just enjoying an activity and taking it for what it is, they seem to focus on finding some little thing that they don't like.

Of course, I'm a white male too, so I guess I just don't understand.:cool:
 

danceronice

Well-Known Member
I too think that some people are just looking to be offended. Instead of just enjoying an activity and taking it for what it is, they seem to focus on finding some little thing that they don't like.

Of course, I'm a white male too, so I guess I just don't understand.:cool:
Well, I'm a white female and I agree with both of you...
 

danceronice

Well-Known Member
To be fair, Generalist snuck in there, and girls do talk about other girls--just not for the same reason the guys do!

And FTR, I have never experienced sexism in ballroom, only some bad leads and creeping, which is not equivalent to me of not being permitted to vote or being required to have a male relative accompany me everywhere while I wear a burqua (actual sexism, not first-world postmodern sexism.)
 

Jag75

Active Member
Partner dancing is inherently sexist, and probably always will be, as long as leads are generally men and follows are generally women.

The key is to accept this.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
would it be too much to ask for everyone to simply stay on topic, not respond to things in an inflammatory way, or to things which they perceive are for the purpose of being inflammatory, to be polite and to anticipate others in kindness? that is a rhetorical question....let's stay on topic.....don't know what it is around here lately everyone needs a group hug or a xanax...now, back to your regularly scheduled topic
 

DL

Well-Known Member
^ Rude..why is it necessary to be so rude when someone is simply giving their opinion?!...
A provocative statement is not a reasoned position. The particular provocative statement in post #111 has already been debunked many times on DF, including on this thread, including by you personally (posts #22 & #52, each of which you backed up with your personal experience). Stated in isolation and without support more than 100 posts into a careful debate, it is likely to incent controversy but adds no intrinsic value. Rude or not, I stand by my entreaty.

ETA

I just encountered Fascination's post, which arrived as I was composing my own.

It was not my own intent to be inflammatory. Nonetheless, IMO post #111 was at best careless, as it failed to account for any argument on any side of the previous 110 posts. If there's a considered argument for that post, it should (again IMO) be stated clearly so that it can be discussed fairly.
 
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A provocative statement is not a reasoned position. The particular provocative statement in post #111 has already been debunked many times on DF, including on this thread, including by you personally (posts #22 & #52, each of which you backed up with your personal experience). Stated in isolation and without support more than 100 posts into a careful debate, it is likely to incent controversy but adds no intrinsic value. Rude or not, I stand by my entreaty.
I personally don't find partner dancing sexist..but there are ways to say things and imo insults are not necessary while debating a subject.
 

DL

Well-Known Member
okay fair enough to defend yourself...but we are now not going to debate whether or not the poster is a troll....on topic or deleted.....
I apologize for the off-the-cuff characterization (which, if it helps (and for which I apologize in any case), I intended in relation to the post, not the poster).

ETA

...but I still "stand by" entreaty for more reasoned debate.
 

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