Why some women are not asked to dance

#23
For the love of god, now I'm supposed to be thinking about the 8 billion ways to cross my legs? What a load of crap. Not to mention, what a bunch of bloody uncomfortable ways to sit. Forget that. I deal with the discomfort of wearing heels, that's bloody well enough. Sit with my legs all twisted about like that...I'm flexible, but I'm not gumby...or 8 years old...phooey.
So that's a "no" then? :grin:

I didn't think it was that annoying - more like a basic reminder that body language counts for a lot in the pre-dance ritual that people tend to employ.

And I hate the idea of the cabaceo. Have the *ahem* to come up and ask me to dance.
Except that, going back to the original entry about etiquette, we see what happens if a guy actually does this:
One man did come up to me and asked me to dance. Right in my face. I smiled and politely said, “No, gracias.” I wasn’t in the mood to dance, and I didn’t really want to accept an invitation like that - I hate being put on the spot unexpectedly. And, in Buenos Aires, everyone - I mean EVERYONE - is watching everything you do. I wasn’t about to violate any codes just yet, for fear of being placed in Tango Purgatory next time. He proceeded to ask other women who were not so nice - they simply ignored him. I felt kind of bad for him.
So why the hell didn't she tell the poor guy about the conventions, huh? And women complain about not being asked to dance - is it surprising? Grrrr....

Frankly, all this ritualistic nonsense does nothing for me - yes, I know, it's the culture, but it's also cliquey, elitist and insular.

I don't want to go to a milonga as a spectator sport, I want to dance. The more dances the better. Am I being weird here?
 
#24
I prefer the cabaceo because it lets me off the hook, and visiting teachers will notice you making eyes at'em when everyone else is trying to work out how to go over.
As a newbie to the UK tango scene, I have to ask - is the cabaceo used much in the UK?

I went to the Tango Tangk festival, and people seemed fine with just being asked to dance - although possibly I spent the entire weekend committing massive social faux pas-s of course...
 
#25
It's actually a really natural thing, when you make eye contact in a friendly way it does send out the message that you wouldn't mind if they asked you to dance. Even when people do come over and ask, they know it's ok because they've been invited to ask. Non verbal communication is a lot more important than people think, look at the reserch on chimp hand gestures that's just come out.
You might well be using it and not even noticing.
 
#26
You might well be using it and not even noticing.
Yes, I'm certainly using a version of it - I don't usually just wander up to people and tap their shoulder to ask them to dance, unless I know them at least.

What I object to is the "ritualisation" of the process, which seems to be excessive and (as in the case described) can put people off with an air of unfriendliness.

What's the odds that the poor guy mentioned in the blog never goes to that tango place again? Are male tango dancers so numerous that it's OK to lose a lot of them?
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#27
Some women are not asked to dance because the men who are in the milongas are totally intimidated by how good you look, and how good you move[/LIST]
Yes if she looks like a very good dancer I won't waste her time. Also she might be a teacher.

Opposite of number one (see above). They saw you dance before and were not impressed by how you moved or looked
What I don't like is women who are not dancing but merely moving. Or being moved. Who don't give emphasis to the step.

Some people in cliques will only dance within that group
If you happened to be in a milonga that was pervaded, then you'd probably end up not being asked
If the woman belongs to a clique I won't invite her.

Some men would not ask you to dance because all the women are sitting in a big bunch.
They don't want to offend the others by homing in on you to dance. So, to save the others' feelings, they won't ask you, until you break away (i.e. get a drink, get a snack, come back from the lady's room, etc.)
One thing I've been taught in a cabeceo class is that when one woman in a bunch declines my invitation I must go back to my seat and not invite another woman of the bunch.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#28
it made me look up the wikipedia entry... interesting what i found...

the word 'faggot' in german means something along the lines of a 'bundle of sticks', which is what the double-reed instruments look like, explains why it's the british slang for cigarettes and the american slang for male homosexuals!

spectator - beware. fascination is going to kick your butt (and probably mine too) very soon. you have already caused DF to be waaay over PG-13 ;). but i'm having fun ..

faggot is also a meatball in the uk.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#30
So that's a "no" then? :grin:

I didn't think it was that annoying - more like a basic reminder that body language counts for a lot in the pre-dance ritual that people tend to employ.
What's a no? I didn't see any question. I'm not a mind reader--if there's a question on your mind, ask me directly. ;-)

I get the body language thing. The difference between the "Al Bundy" way of sitting versus sitting nicely I get. Generally, I even follow that. But analyzing the various ways of crossing her legs. C'mon, people!

Except that, going back to the original entry about etiquette, we see what happens if a guy actually does this:
And I think her response was off-base. If you're at a dance venue, I don't buy that anyone is terribly surprised by being asked to dance. The method might be unconventional for the venue, but still.

Frankly, all this ritualistic nonsense does nothing for me - yes, I know, it's the culture, but it's also cliquey, elitist and insular.

I don't want to go to a milonga as a spectator sport, I want to dance. The more dances the better. Am I being weird here?
I'm not sure if this was in reponse to my post, but I can't see how, since it seems that we have similar points of view. I agree with you. The cabaceo is fine at times...I've actually used it a few times. Whatever. But to turn it into The Tango Code...what a lode of b.s. Cliquey, elitist, and insular is right.

And, yeah. I want to dance. And also to socialize, and relax, and enjoy myself. If I wanted to be evaluated on what I'm wearing and how I cross my legs (looking down at how i'm currently siting "indian style"--is that phrase still used? seems so...un-pc...) and blah blah blah...I'd go to a bar and participate in the local meat market. If I'm sitting and chatting, say "excuse me" and ask me to dance. And, ladies, don't be [foxtrot]-ing rude when you answer!
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
#31
Come on people. Dressing up is just like the ordinarily mousy girl who puts on makeup and does her hair. You get noticed more, you're more likely to get asked to dance.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#32
Not denying it. (I would be that mousy girl.)

Just not liking it. Don't like dressing up. Don't like playing the game.

But I play it anyway. If you can't beat them, join them.
 
#34
You know, it's hard being a 'stunna'! One day when your looks start to go the invitations stop coming. What do you do then? having relied on looks you've never needed to develop wit or had the neccessity to become a great dancer.

I actually think it would be really liberating if we all wore masks, ugly people wouldn't be discriminated against (let's face it they are, even if it's subconscious) beautiful people wouldn't be able to rely on their face alone. People would be forced to distinguish themselves through character and skill. As a female I hate the way I am judged on my appearance. When maintenance guys come to deal with things they ignore me and go straight to the 30 year old guy standing behind me, even though I am the more senior in terms of job hierarchy.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
#36
You know, it's hard being a 'stunna'! One day when your looks start to go the invitations stop coming. What do you do then? having relied on looks you've never needed to develop wit or had the neccessity to become a great dancer.

I actually think it would be really liberating if we all wore masks, ugly people wouldn't be discriminated against (let's face it they are, even if it's subconscious) beautiful people wouldn't be able to rely on their face alone. People would be forced to distinguish themselves through character and skill. As a female I hate the way I am judged on my appearance. When maintenance guys come to deal with things they ignore me and go straight to the 30 year old guy standing behind me, even though I am the more senior in terms of job hierarchy.
I am consoled that most of the men I know find that when women like this have cultivated no other aspects of their personalities, they really aren't worth more than the 2 minutes on the floor...as for me, well, I try to be a sight worth looking at, but I figure, failing that, I can be a pretty good dance partner, and the ones who aren't intimidated will probably come back for more
 

samina

Well-Known Member
#37
it seems to me that being enthusiastic, warm, engaging, receptive, and capable is the name of the game... period. the women i see/know who are short on dance partners fail in some regard in those qualities.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
#38
and as for the uncharitable characterizations of my moderating, I have no burning desire to flex my moderation muscles here quix....hmmmpfffff
 
#39
What's a no? I didn't see any question. I'm not a mind reader--if there's a question on your mind, ask me directly. ;-)
What's the speed of an Amazonian swallow? :)

OK, the "no" was in relation to the "this is the way to sit" bit - I was just being a little cheeky. :p

I'm not sure if this was in reponse to my post, but I can't see how, since it seems that we have similar points of view. I agree with you.
I was referring to the original post and replying to Spectator - but yes, we seem to be in agreement. It's bad enough to refuse a dance with no reason, but ignoring someone when they ask you to dance... that really makes me :mad:.

As a leader, we've all been beginners, and we've all had the worry of asking a unknown person to dance. Anything that makes this process more difficult - which, in this case, it seems to - is just a tried-and-tested method of reinforcing the "too many women" problem in most partner dancing.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
#40
it seems to me that being enthusiastic, warm, engaging, receptive, and capable is the name of the game... period. the women i see/know who are short on dance partners fail in some regard in those qualities.
depends on the studio/venue tho'...the one I frequent is now 90 newbs...they die a thousand deaths when i ask them to dance...they will do it but they are scared witless...and the advanced dudes are w/ their wives...it just dpends...but yea...if you sit by the floor and smile and there are dancers who feel compatible, you are gonna dance...
 

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