Rhythmically challenged partner

Another etiquette question -- what do you do when dancing with a partner who just doesn't get it, rhythmically? You know the ones-- they may be newbie dancers or just dancing to the beat of a different drummer. But they're definitely not dancing to the same music as you. :shock: :? What do you do? And is it different if you're a leader or a follower?

pygmalion said:

Another etiquette question -- what do you do when dancing with a partner who just doesn't get it, rhythmically? You know the ones-- they may be newbie dancers or just dancing to the beat of a different drummer. But they're definitely not dancing to the same music as you. :shock: :? What do you do? And is it different if you're a leader or a follower?

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This happened to me last night--twice. While my impulse was to stop dancing, I sucked it up and did my footwork, stayed on rhythm, and was thankful for the two-three moments in the song when we happened to get on the same beat at the same time. Tried very hard not to backlead. And smiled and thanked the lead when the dance was over. And when one of them asked me again, I said I was sitting one out and I did. (I hate it when someone refuses me a dance using the "sit one out" line and then promptly starts dancing with another person in the same song. So I don't do it to someone else.)

Dance etiquette. As I know it today.

Well it depends. In general I would say that the partnership should dance together. I have danced off rhythm with a follower just because she was dancing to a beat of a different drummer and just couldn't come back on beat. We had a better dance that way rather then me struggling through the whole dance.

Two different circumstances:
1. A person may deliberately be dancing in that manner. For instance in salsa if I am dancing on 3, then a follower is dancing on 1 we both are dancing correctly to the music, however we cannot dance together this way. As a leader I would switch to 1 as I know that so that we dance together. If I didn't know how to dance salsa on 1 and the follower knew how to dance on 3, then she should switch. Then sometimes when musis is really fast I slow the dancing down by doing a step to every two beats where I normally would do 1 (does anyone know the dance term for this?). I often do this when I am dancing with soemone who knows less then I do and is getting flustered. Or if I am in one of my moods of playing with the music.

2. Then there is the situation where there is no way that a person is dancing the rhythm of the music. As a leader I would want to be helped out, but then this brings up the whole leader-follower ettiquette issue.

Last night I had a horrible time with the waltzes as the room was so crowded I couldn't really waltz. It was a matter of collision avoidance 99.5% of the time. As a newbie dancer I had a really hard time even dancing!! So the follower, a much more experienced dancer then myself, helped me out. [And I know that it was the crowded floor that did me in as at more spacious venues I do waltz.] Anyway after the dance the follow said that she hoped I didn't mind her helping me keep on the beat. I said not at all.

Note that this whole post flies against the idea of being a 100% follower, following what the leader does even if it is wrong, in the "beginner-follower" thread as I believe that the principle of partnership is the overriding one on the dance floor.

Sagitta said:

Then sometimes when musis is really fast I slow the dancing down by doing a step to every two beats where I normally would do 1 (does anyone know the dance term for this?).

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It's called dancing "half-time". If you were dancing two (or more) steps in the space of one, you'd be "syncopating"

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Now on to the subject of off-beat dance partners...

I've led and followed, taught and been taught.. so here it goes:

In a leader's position: you gently encourage the follow to stay on the beat by tightening up connection/frame and giving a more "distinct" idea of where the beat is. This only works if the follow has some idea of musicality and can stay on time once they "get there".

As a follower: FOLLOW Don't think about it, just do what "simon says". It's less stressful that way.

I do know of at least one person (a follow) who is so hopelessly musicality impaired that she can't even clap to a distinct beat. She is all over the place and is hopeless. I've seen this problem more in leaders than followers, though.

As to the ettiquette involved, smile :lol: smile :lol: smile :lol: and bite one's tongue (unless of course you have a really good relationship with the person with whom you are dancing). :wink:

If you can't possibly avoid dancing with said person in the future, plead a turned ankle and limp to your seat and stay there all night long. It has worked for me in the past. Of course, I get as much pleasure out of watching as I do dancing, so it doesn't bother me to sacrifice a night for the sake of being polite, tee hee hee.

I want to clarify what happened to me...I feel like I've given the impression of being callous, with an attitude of I'm gonna stay on beat no matter what he does. I just didn't know what to do to stay with this guy. He kept changing what he was doing. Starting with super-loose connection so there was no body lead. Add to that a major lack of rhythm. And then add to that no discernible pattern. He would do step, step rock step and I'd try to match. Then he'd change to step step step, and then back to step step rock step. After a couple of phrases of this confusion, I gave up and just kept my step step triple step, step step triple step going and tried very hard to stay connected and on beat. And smile.

I usually don’t lead anything but a cross-body or a right turn,
until we have tuned in to what beat we are dancing on.
It’s just don’t work if the timing isn’t there.

I try to mark the 1 beat with my left arm, and if this doesn’t help,
I try counting the one out loud.

But some girls take this as a hint to lead them self. :evil: :evil: :evil:

suek said:

I want to clarify what happened to me...I feel like I've given the impression of being callous, with an attitude of I'm gonna stay on beat no matter what he does. I just didn't know what to do to stay with this guy. He kept changing what he was doing. Starting with super-loose connection so there was no body lead. Add to that a major lack of rhythm. And then add to that no discernible pattern. He would do step, step rock step and I'd try to match. Then he'd change to step step step, and then back to step step rock step. After a couple of phrases of this confusion, I gave up and just kept my step step triple step, step step triple step going and tried very hard to stay connected and on beat. And smile.

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Ugh! That rock step (at least in ECS) can be a real nightmare. I've had many a guy who just coul;dn't rock step and get back on the beat. So I attempt to watch their feet, keep smiling, and hang on for dear life! Meaning, not clutch the guy, but do my best and wait to finish the dance. It's not the most enjoyable experience, I must say.

pygmalion said:

Ugh! That rock step (at least in ECS) can be a real nightmare. I've had many a guy who just coul;dn't rock step and get back on the beat. It's not the most enjoyable experience, I must say.

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I agree!! Who likes to be jerked around and off the beat too!! Perhaps the step is too large. I have danced with quite a few follows who have a hard time keeping to the beat because of that reason. Forcing the step to be small makes it easier, and the best way is in closed position so that your partner can really feel what you are doing.

I must confess that I have this problem. My body will suddenly hear something in the music and go off on a tangent, and then it naturally gets right back into the rhythmn. At first it was really bad for the follows that I danced with, but as I learn more about dancing I find that I am getting better at actually leading my follow into what my body is hearing and back out on beat!! It also helps knowing mutiple dances.

Here's another one that challenges me,and I don't know if it's a rhythm thing or a frame thing:

When my lead bends sideways at the waist, which seems to totally sabotage whatever body lead I'm being given. I see this a lot in ECS dancers, maybe a misunderstanding of the athletic swing posture?

It makes me crazy, since I'm always seeking good connection and good frame which gives good lead/follow.

Anyone else experience this?

I've experienced it with follows. This used to happen a lot when I was just starting out, as I would allow follows to dictate due to lack of confidence in what I was learning. It actually makes swing moves harder to lead. BUT, once I was confident in what is and feels right it wasn't so much of a problem, as I encourage the follow into the right posture. There are some though who it is almost impossible to lead correctly. I'm sure that there must be leaders aplenty out there too.

This could be due to misinterpretation of the groovy nature of swing.

Ah yes. The old collapsed frame! :x It's not just ECS dancers. It's a lot of people who haven't had proper instruction about how to maintain their frame. I see that a lot in ballroom/social dncers as well.