Social obligations...

What do you do when there are people you feel socially obligated to dance with on a regular, ongoing basis, but do not enjoy dancing with? I am not talking about the occasional social dance but rather, people whom you see on a weekly basis and who, socially, you like and are friendly with. Perhaps more importantly, they think they are good dancers. Given the ego investment and involvement in learning to dance, I don't want to offend people I genuinely like but, at the same time, I do not enjoy the dancing, even sometimes ending up with a sore shoulder. How do (or would) you deal with such a situation?

I can certainly identify.
Normally, my strategy is to cut back on the number of times I dance with this person in hopes they will grow acustomed to dancing with me less. In this way the person will see that you are still interested in dancing with them, but not as much as before. Hopefully, this person has lots of other dance partners, but, either way, that's not my problem. Finally, I wouldn't want someone to dance with me if they didn't enjoy it.

I still feel there will always be some awkward situations sometimes. I think we should be thoughtful of others above all else. :?

I found myself at times having to point out things, but I also make sure I do it in a gentle, loving and encouraging way, in such a manner that person will actually want to continue and learn more. All told, I'll dance with nearly ANYONE (my limits come however with snobs and people who get very reckless and don't givea hoot about the well-being of others around them) However, in the case of someone like The Talon Woman (Seinfeld-like enough for ya?) mentioned in point #1, I will be very reticent to dance with a person who gets so pointedly reckless like that. Otherwise, my dance floor experiences, all told have been nothing short of great fun!

The things I encounter most are:

1) The infamous Deathgrip (and once I point it out, some are amazed that all you need is a very light grip for dancing). One instance though, I danced EC Swing with this one woman who had nails more like talons on a Hawk or a Great Horned Owl That HURT!!!!! :shock:

2) Women that have a tendency to take HUGE steps into the next state or lean back so far that even a big guy like myself gets thrown off balance.

3) What I call Stiff Arm Syndrome. Makes it nearly impossible for a guy to lead. I just do my best to warmly encourage the woman to relax her arms and not worry about "Getting It All Right" so much as having fun with what they know at that point in time. The "technique" and finer points will come.

Again, the main thing is that dancing is supposed to be FUN, not defusing a bomb!

I kind of agree...

Although I agree to some extent to some of the posts, I must share something with you... There was this lady (salsa dancer) who really could not dance well at all. Instead of being helped, she was just being turned down more and more often...

One day an older gentleman danced with her and very discreetly gave her some pointers. She actually began to take classes from him and today, about 10 years later, she's one of the top salsa dance instructors...

I'm sure some of you know who I'm talking about, but if not, it's Edie, the Dance Freak.

The point here is, if you like the person, I would without question tell them (very nicely and discreetly). I think you'd do them more of a dis-service by not approaching the issue. Especially if this is someone you like...

I come across this on a regular basis. Either I'm out dancing and someone sees how I can dance and wants to dance with me to make themselves look better/feel better (etcetc) or someone that can really dance (sometimes better than me) wants to "practice" their moves with me to show off to others. Sorry if I offended anyone but that's how it seems. I just gradually turn down dancing offers. I just have to learn not to feel guilty for doing it :?

Social Obligations . . .

Miss Alyssa,
I agree with most of what you say and why you say it, however I too, get asked to dance on a regular basis. It is usually from women who see me dance and think that they are at my level or higher. I never turn down a dance!

You see, I also compete and do a lot of "Jack and Jills." When I get asked to dance, I make it my J & J practice time. I usually stick to mostly basics and easy, but very followable (word???) move.

As PhilOwl said above, I too have come across the infamous death grips, but I learned to change my lead to the lightest one I can muster. Also, the nails! Yea right, ouch. Here, I've learned to lead either by the back of their hand or their wrist - after I tell them their nails are too sharp!

Huge steps are manageable, but coaster steps, as in not anchoring in WCS and coming out on count 1 before the lead for 1 is given. A leader leterally has to change his/or her move most of the time because of this. This is the biggest problem I have seen.

And the stiff or heavy arm is much worse than a follower that breaks frame. I can counter a broken frame, but a follower with bigger biceps than me and tries to prove it, makes for a long dance.

SDSalsa-
Brother, do I know the feeling. If they are causing problems for your shoulder, maybe you can drop any arm-body connection you have, and just give her a real loose lead. Now generally I tend to try to stay strong in case the follow needs a little balance help after a turn or what not, but if they're putting a lot of weight on your shoulder, and it's uncomfortable, do what you gotta do. If they don't hold their center together, for goodness sake don't put them in any type of "dip" position.
Now my question for you ... when you go out to a Salsa club, and other male dancers start stepping on your follow, what do you do? Generally I'll cross body lead her to the opposite side, but then my new side clears out and they start encroaching on her new side. I still haven't figured out how to handle that problem.

msc said:

Now my question for you ... when you go out to a Salsa club, and other male dancers start stepping on your follow, what do you do? Generally I'll cross body lead her to the opposite side, but then my new side clears out and they start encroaching on her new side. I still haven't figured out how to handle that problem.

Click to expand...

I actually dance a very circular style, so am constantly readjusting my "alignments." I find this gives me a fair amount of ability to respond to the movement of couples around me in a very dynamic manner. This being said, there are – of course – occasions when my partner's and my space really does get encroached on. Then the issue shifts to why our dance space is being intruded on. If it is a beginner who lacks a higher level of control then, by and large, keeping my back to them and readjusting my partner’s position relative to the couples dancing on her “side” usually works. If, on the other hand, the guilty culprits are dancers who have the ability and should know better (although this usually means it is that leaders fault), then, in the interest of protecting my partner I will use a “defensive elbow” – and I do NOT mean that I elbow anyone! What I do mean is that when we are in frame I will raise my elbows slightly – I find that this simultaneously expands the width of our framed boundary and, literally, puts a harder edge on the edges of our space. Before it gets to this extreme, however, I will often move my partner out of the way and take a “hit” or two on my back, so that my partner is protected and the other dancer(s) know they’re dancing too on top of us before resorting to such measures.

Hope that’s of some help…

MissAlyssa said:

I just gradually turn down dancing offers. I just have to learn not to feel guilty for doing it :?

Click to expand...

Overall, and in general, there's nothing wrong with this -- my original post, however, stemmed from the specific situation of how to deal with other dancers who are part of my same social group and I am friendly with. I have, however, been away for almost 2 months, so maybe things will be different when I make it back out to my salsa haunts this Friday…

Also, as an aside, I find that, as a man, I am less inclined to turn anyone down the first time they ask me. I remember how hard it was to work up the nerve to ask someone to dance when I was starting out and the least I can do to repay the generous women who helped me along my way is to pass along their generosity…

Re: Social Obligations . . .

Vince A said:

And the stiff or heavy arm is much worse than a follower that breaks frame. I can counter a broken frame, but a follower with bigger biceps than me and tries to prove it, makes for a long dance.

Click to expand...

True enough...but the true bane of my dancing existence is NO resistance whatsoever...the infamous "spaghetti arms" – yuck!

SDsalsaguy,

Spaghetti arms . . . I forgot about this!

I've actually only danced with one follower who had this . . . I lightened up my lead to the point where if you had stuck a piece of paper between my finger tips and hers, the paper would have fallen out. She told me later that I was hard to follow because she couldn't feel my lead. I told her I had lightened up in hope of her giving some frame, or resistance. She said she thought she was, and "no one had complained before this." I said I wasn't complaining . . . we danced again, she tried giving resistance. Voila!

I don't correct on the floor. I just dance. I wouldn't have said anything, but she opened the door.

We now dance very well together, in fact, have competed together.

Funny how some things happen!

Sd, Vince-
Have you ever had to dance with follows that were just total, err, jerks? The type that criticizes you after every dance, even if she herself is lacking in a great many ways, and may not know what the heck she's talking about? There's this one woman, she's so bad that I can't lead her, I mean she lacks everthing, posture, center tone, flexibility, power,rhythm, timing, you name it, she ain't got it. So I let her backlead and stumble through the patterns, I compliment her at the end of the pattern, and I'm rewarded with bad advice delivered in a snide manner.

Mind you, I've seen guys who were jerks too, there's a fellow who my old partner used to call "Evil Man" who would stop during the middle of a dance, even a traveling dance, to lecture the follow on things he really knows nothing about. It seemed kind of funny to me at the time ... I guess kharma is catching up to me.

msc,
Oh yes . . I know one of those, and to make matters worse, she comes to the dances that are held at the studio where I take my privates.

She has extremely heavy arms, can't or won't follow, can't spot during multiple turns (gets dizzy quickly), says "I'm sorry" every other beat . . . and would you believe . . . she is an intermediate dancer??? Most of the real problem is "attitude." She "thinks" she is great. I don't know how to handle her??? Other followers - any ideas???

However, just recently, I pulled a good one. I also follow (some dances), and follow well. She (again) "thinks" that she is a great lead, and is always asking other ladies to dance. This time I asked her to dance a WCS, and revenge was my motive. I did everything to her that she had done to me just 10 minutes prior. I know . . . I'm an a**hole!

After that dance, she told me that I needed to work on my following. I told her I would, and that all of us, sometime or another, need to work on things - all the while, evilly staring daggers into her eyes. Think she got the hint???

Nah!!!

msc said:

Sd, Vince-
Have you ever had to dance with follows that were just total, err, jerks? The type that criticizes you after every dance, even if she herself is lacking in a great many ways, and may not know what the heck she's talking about?

Click to expand...

msc,

Haven't had this happen in a while...but wanted to point out that very good dancers can be jerks too. I can think of one woman here who I asked to dance a while back, who is a better dancer then I am. What I do have going for me, however, is that I am a good leader. Well, she "decided" what things she wanted to follow and would also back lead herself into others. I think the very fact that this wasn't a result of her inability made it all the more offensive. To my way of thinking, if she didn't want to dance with me she didn't have to, but, once she had said yes, she should have been dancing with me, i.e. letting me lead (assuming that I was actually doing so).

Or several years back, when I was still learning, there was one woman who was in the tier above me, but never accepted a dance (and I'm talking about over a year+). Well, the next 4th of July we were both at the same club quite early in the evening and, for some reason, almost no guys who weren't rank beginners showed up for hours...I have to admit I got a slightly sadistic thrill from watching her just stew on the side of the floor as I danced with all of the other women of her ability and above who were there, as well as several women below her ability, and even sat out an occasional song without even approaching her. Just my way of saying that there is karma in the universe?

Umm Vince, don't you think that was a bit overkill? Why not just not dance with her anymore?

SD,

Yes, you are right - that is overkill. However, "just don't dance with her" is another issue.

You see, I have personal vow of not refusing a dance to anyone - unless of course I've already changed shoes, and am on the way out the door, etc.

Most everyone talks about this woman - laughing and chuckling behind her back. I say "most' because I won't be a part of that, so I will dance with her. The revenge was wrong, but at the time, it just felt like the right thing to do. And I won't aplogize because she was unaware of any perceived wrong doing.