How to lead Rhythm Changes?

My wife and I are beginners. For the most part we can successfully navigate, do some turns and ochos, that is as long as we only do slow steps (or only quick steps in a milonga). The problem is that when I want to go from 4 slow steps to something like slow - slow - quick - quick - slow (or slow - quick - quick - slow - quick - quick) she doesn't pick up on the quick steps. Apparently I'm leading this improperly, so my question is, what is the proper way to lead going to quick steps from slow steps?



The correct answer could possibly save a marriage.
:argue:

I feel your pain.

I mainly follow, but have been learning to lead. So as a new leader myself what my other half tells me when I have tried to lead weight changes that are fairly subtle is that I am not actually communicating the weight change with my torso to him when he acts as my follow. (This is when I have tried to lead small, in place quick weight changes in tango or milonga, sometimes I haven't got the knack of communicating with the torso yet.) This seems like a situation similar to yours but in reverse. I am a lady learning lead leading a leader who is learning to follow...so both of us have less experience with what we are leading and following, if that makes sense to you. So it takes more of a lead for me to lead him than it does him to lead me.

You might try something a little more basic like a multiple side steps, and lead that in a quick-quick rhythm. Also- basic corridas (running steps) are fairly easy to lead. The important thing is to communicate the lead (doing a double time step) with your torso rather than just trying to take quicker steps with your feet. And also make sure you are both not collapsing your embrace. If the connection is shaky and someone is hinging at the shoulder joint, it wont be easy to lead or follow.

I'm sure there's more experienced leads who may have more extensive advice but hope this gives you an idea.

Lead quick steps shorter than the slow ones and don't forget to keep your chest forward.

May I ask if you tried to change partner? Can you lead quick steps to another follower? Can she follow quick steps lead by another leader? I've seen a lot of times couples that simply don't understand where the problem is and changing partner can help to focus it. It's not easy to lead quick steps, but it's not easy to follow them too.

In fast quick steps one needs to get the signal in advance of the step. ie to convey intention. Secondly it helps to stiffen up the leaders hips so the leg movement is felt in the chest. Watch some milonga videos on you tube or tangovideoproject and you will see what I mean.

I once attended a class by J. Balmaceda about how to change speed.
The last slow of the series has to be different from the previous slows. Somehow slower, or longer. Holding your partner. Taking a breath. The tempo is exactly the same, it's not actually slower but it has to feel different, so that the follower knows that something will happen.

Slow, slow, slow, slowwwww, quick, quick, slow.

Q what is the proper way to lead going to quick steps from slow steps?

In your post you describe several combinations of slows and quicks. It will be helpful at this point, to not think in terms of set numbers of quicks and slows, except for some that are very basic.

You don't mention side steps or rock steps, so let's assume you are walking. (Actually, for my money, I'd say rock steps (quick quick (yes, counting) ) are easier to master than "little runs" or corridas).

Start by walking slows to music that you have picked.
The amount of energy that you give to your partner, and the amount of time it takes to do that should be constant, and, very importantly, in time to the music.

Your forward energy should build up in preparation for that your first quick step. As boardertangoman writes, this is the "signal" to your partner that a quick step is coming.
While you are responsible for starting this build up just before your first quick step, your partner is responsible for learning to feel this change.

It is important to understand that there is nonverbal communication going on.

It is also important that your partner does not pull away from you coming towards her with more speed and energy when you begin taking your quick steps, which is the natural reaction.

If she moves away from you, you will feel the two of you being separated, and she will not be able to feel you slowing in preparation for a slow step.

The corrida usually consists of three quick steps, but rather than count steps, when you want the next step to be a slow, you want to decelerate your forward momentum. In other words, slow "gradually", rather than "on a dime".
While you are learning to do this, you will / should do things in an overt fashion. Later, as you both get better, you will be able to become more subtle in your movments.

And, pick something pretty slow to practice to. If you both learn to listen and move to the music as you dance, you will more likely be on the same page with timing, energy, etc.

Always remember, too, that both partners contribute to making things work.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and please keep them coming. FWIW, we don't seem to have any issues going from quick to slow, but only from slow to quick.

For now, just doing a basic walk was what I was trying to ask about. Basically, I'm an ex-musician, so I want to vary based upon the feel of the music. She is an ex-ballet dancer, so she (apparently) doesn't feel the music the same way that I do. I can accept that I'm probably not leading correctly, (even though I don't seem to have this problem so much with other people), but I just want to know (as precisely as possible) what I'm supposed to do to lead the change.

What helps me for leading rhythm changes is thinking about accellerating into the doubles. I by myself can go from single time to double time instantaneously, but to communicate this to the follower i need to accellerate into the doubletime.

I am trying to describe the same thing as everybody else - i hope one of the descriptions resonates with you- before you do doubles you have to accellerate. The last single is acctually an accelleration - i and the follower arrive at the end of the last single with the energy and intention of a double, and then continue doing doubles. It is like the difference in energy between starting from being collected into a single or starting into a double. But if you change to doubles you have to build up the energy beforehand, so that when you continue out of the collection you are in double. And you only get that when the follower feel when she goes into the collection that you are going to go out of it into a double. Try watching how you stop - I slow down before the collection. If i were to stop apruptly exactly at the collection i get an inline boleo because the momentum is still there, and the same thing is true for the double - if the momentum is not there i am just going to run over her.

Gssh

dchester said:

For now, just doing a basic walk was what I was trying to ask about.

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Dunno for other people but switching from slow to quick in a basic forward walk is more difficult for me than when walking backwards (the follower either walking forward or making forward ochos)

newbie said:

I once attended a class by J. Balmaceda about how to change speed.
The last slow of the series has to be different from the previous slows. Somehow slower, or longer. Holding your partner. Taking a breath. The tempo is exactly the same, it's not actually slower but it has to feel different, so that the follower knows that something will happen.

Slow, slow, slow, slowwwww, quick, quick, slow.

Click to expand...

We went out this weekend, and this tip worked very well for me/us.

Some of what Gssh said, I was able to understand and apply as well.

Thank you all very much.
:cheers:

dchester said:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and please keep them coming. FWIW, we don't seem to have any issues going from quick to slow, but only from slow to quick....

For now, just doing a basic walk was what I was trying to ask about....

... I just want to know (as precisely as possible) what I'm supposed to do to lead the change.

Click to expand...

In my experience, when I lead a change of rhythm, I communicate it to my partner via muscle tension. She can feel this. I actually did do this, nor study this intentionally, it just evolved through time.

If I'm leading from slow to quick, my muscles actually will tense up in preparation for a change in tempo. It signals intent, and an oncoming rush [of sorts] It also happens in going from quick to slow. My muscle tension relaxes.

It all depends on the tempo/rhythm/feel of the music.