Skill levels

I see and hear it all the time.

"I'm an advanced beginner"
"I've been dancing a year now, I'm an intermediate level"
"I'm almost advanced level now!"

I've been dancing almost two years now and I still call myself a beginner. The owners of the quotes above, I've seen them dance...they're beginners too. People that know me and see me out dancing always ask me "Why do you consider yourself a beginner? You're one of the best out here!" I usually tell them calling yourself something doesn't make it true. I know how much work is still left to do so I don't kid myself with the term intermediate or advanced. But it amazes me how many dancers cling to these titles as if it stratifies them above other dancers. You can say it to yourself all you want, but the truth comes out on the dancefloor in the end.

I agree!! I'm sure I'll be a beginner for a long time!!

I don't even think of myself as a level. There are levels of class, but they relate more to the steps you are doing rather than the level of dancer doing them.

There is a guy that goes to class with me who considers dancing is all about the number of steps or figures you know. He was complaining to me once that his instructor had not taught him a new step in a private lesson for almost 3 months and he was getting bored. He just doesn't get it at all. Great guy to dance with, but he just doesn't get it.

Most people still quantify their dancing through the medal system. Bronze, Silver, Gold and above Gold. Basically it comes down to 10 steps in each level ie. 10 for Bronze, 10 for Silver etc. It takes an average person 1-2 years to achieve a Bronze medal, 5 years to achieve a Silver medal and 10+ years to get a Gold. However steps do not a dancer make. I agree with youngsta, get on the floor a show me what you do. Don't tell me how many steps you know.

I hear you youngsta!

I remember once being asked to dance and, after I'd accepted, being asked to take it easy on her since she was "only a level 3 dancer." :shock:

Seriously now, what in G-d's name does that even mean???

Hi Youngsta,

This is a good topic, thanks for bringing it up.

Even though I’ve recently passed to an advanced level in my salsa school, I still consider myself as a beginner. It’s kind of ironic because the more proficient I get, the more I feel like a beginner. I’m constantly learning new things (which I should already know) and correcting flaws in my technique. The more I progress the more demanding I become on myself…

Ever since I passed to an advanced level, I’ve spent more time practising the basic step than new patterns. I honestly believe I need to improve my basic step before I can progress further. I feel this has already started to help me in classes as well as on the dance floor.

The other day I was commenting with a friend that I had really enjoyed dancing with an advanced salsera. He corrected me saying, “No she’s intermediate”. I answered, “No, she’s advanced, dance with her, you’ll see…”. My friend was referring to her official level, I was referring to what I felt on the dance floor.

I have the tendency to “mentally” rate people who I’ve danced with. This is my own subjective rating which has nothing to do with their official level. Sometimes when dancing with a new girl, I can tell (before we dance) if she’s good or not just by holding her in a closed position. If in doubt, a simple cross body lead will answer my question. From that moment on, I know what kind of patterns I can do with her.

Regards,

True...calling yourself something doesn't make it true. I too always feel like I have loads to learn, but skill levels are necessary in some cases (classes, for example). But like you said, it doesn't mean all that much. Whenever someone asks me, I usually reply with, "I just try REALLY hard."

MapleLeaf Salsero said:

I honestly believe I need to improve my basic step before I can progress further.

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MapleLeaf,
I usually consider people to be advanced dancers if they know enough to know that they need to keep working on basics, not on learning tons of new patterns. Congratulations!

Kevin

There's something in Zen called "beginner's mind", useful at all levels.

Measuring o :? r assessing something like dance does seem to be defeating the point. Okay if you can dance and its flowing and feels good to your partner then you're probably no longer a beginner.

But after that there's always somebody better so why worry. Just make sure you are learning things that are new.

Mapleleaf Salsero,
You quote of "she’s good or not just by holding her in a closed position.". As follower i come to the same conclusion of the leader. Thanks for stating that, i have always thought that to be true.
I hear the "i have been dancing for 4 years so i am advanced now". I always argue, 4 years but how many times a week do you dance ? Someone dancing for 1 year, but 4 times a week can be a better dancer than someone dancing for 4 years, getting on the dance floor every second week.

interesting discussion though. I would like to explore the working on the basics more. If you say you practice your basic step in order to improve it, what do you exactly mean ? Can you really improve on your basic step if you have been dancing a few years ? How do you go about working on your basic step ? Do you ask for comments from other good dancers or from a coach/instructor or video ? Obviously i am more of a beginner than anything else......

youngsta said:

....I usually tell them calling yourself something doesn't make it true. I know how much work is still left to do so I don't kid myself with the term intermediate or advanced. But it amazes me how many dancers cling to these titles as if it stratifies them above other dancers. You can say it to yourself all you want, but the truth comes out on the dancefloor in the end.

Click to expand...

Very true post youngsta......
This has happened particularly in the salsa schools I've attended where alot of students walk around claiming levels and I think to myself, "You call yourself any level you want but you still have problems with the basic rhythm? hmmmm...." It's not a good idea that people cling to these titles but it comes from wherever they're being taught. Students are validated by whatever the instructor sometimes tell them when in reality, you are only "advanced" because the schools need the money and they need to keep you coming back. Therefore, they're really not being honest and give a false since of hierarchy among students that shouldn't happen in the first place. :? Like younsta says, the TRUTH comes out on the dancefloor in the end.

I don't think in terms of skill levels, I either enjoy dancing with someone or I don't.
I think I am more interested in making the dance my own, basically feeling comfortable on the dance floor with my partner and the music, how can I do this if I am constantly trying to live up to somebodies expectation of how I am supposed to be dancing. I say forget skill levels they only place restrictions on how one is supposed to dance.

KevinL said:

MapleLeaf Salsero said:

I honestly believe I need to improve my basic step before I can progress further.

Click to expand...

MapleLeaf,
I usually consider people to be advanced dancers if they know enough to know that they need to keep working on basics, not on learning tons of new patterns. Congratulations!

Kevin

Click to expand...

Thanks KevinL!!!!!

Vin said:

.... I say forget skill levels they only place restrictions on how one is supposed to dance.

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Amen, Vin!!! :lol:

Amen to that, peachexploration.

Youngsta, thanks for a great topic. 8)

And it's just as bad, if not worse, in the ballroom world, because of the medals system. Bronze, silver and gold become so important to some people, and many people equate the levels with knowing some number of step patterns. Wrong!

The thing is, some techniques, for example, just take a long time to learn and develop. I'm a prime example for this. I've been dancing 2.5 years (anniversary Friday! ) and in that time have taken about 600 hours of private instruction. So, by some people's reckoning, that should put me somewhere near done silver. But, in my mind, and my coach's LOL, I'm still working bronze. You can't measure dancing ability by the number of lessons you've taken, or sometimes even the amount of time you've spent practicing. It's measured by what you can do on a dance floor. And that takes time, both on the calendar and on the practice floor, to mature, IMHO.