Starting a ballroom orchestra

Hi:

I've started working on creating a 13-piece orchestra specificially for playing ballroom music. So far, I've talked to some of the dance instructors in town (they all seem enthusiastic with the idea), found most of the musicians interested, and have started to work on the sheet music arrangements. And this is where my query lies.

With each sheet music arrangement taking several hours to write, and needing at least fifty of them just to start to do dances, I have to choose songs that will be dancable. In other words, I need to know what dancers want.

So...

1) What tunes are perrenial favorites?

2) What kind of tunes and in what ratio should there be? How many swing, how many latin (and what kind), how many waltzes and slow songs, etc.

3) any other advice on what makes a good ballroom band (and how to avoid being a bad one) would be appreciated.

have a clue about appropriate beats per minute...and keep it steady....

fascination said:

have a clue about appropriate beats per minute...and keep it steady....

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I have to definitely echo this. We have a local band that does a lot of the ballroom dances around here. They're good to listen to, but as far as dancing goes...

They're danceable, but 1) their tempo changes throughout many of their songs and 2) some songs are either way too fast or way too slow. One year they played a completely unbearable tango... so sloooooow.

To their credit, they're constantly asking the dance community for input and they're heeding our advice.

As far as the OP's questions:

1) Lots of big band favorites. Just about anything done by the major big bands of the 40's and 50's, such as Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, etc. You'll almost always hear "String of Pearls," "Woodchopper's Ball," "Tuxedo Junction," "In The Mood," "Sing Sing Sing," etc. "La Cumparsita" is a classic tango, "Brazil" a samba, and "Tea For Two" a cha-cha. Our local band also always does "Tequila." Some bands we've danced to even compose their own, or find good uncommon pieces to play. That always adds to the mix.

2) Just give a good variety. Most big bands play many swings, quicksteps, and foxtrots, a few cha-chas and rumbas, and the occasional tango and viennese. Personally I don't mind several foxtrots in a row, but other people may not think so. Just try to throw in a good variety.

3) see above. I also have to add you should try to keep your songs somewhere around the 3-4 minute mark. Many bands we've danced to will do those long marathon pieces where they play a medley of songs all at once. It's great to listen to, but murder to dance to.

I personally love dancing to a live orchestra. It definitely adds to the ambiance, and it's timeless. Good luck to you!

Good to hear you are tackling this project.

First thing to do is to attend an assortment of the kinds of dances you would like to play, and get an idea of what is going on there, what is popular, and just the general dynamic.

For music, most of the issue is how you play it, not the tune itself.

Picking an appropriate tempo and sticking to it is very important. The appropriate tempo will vary by setting though - for example, foxtrot with people shuffling around the floor could be as much as 140 bpm or even faster, with more advanced dancers gliding around the floor it should be a little under 120. Slow waltzes should be 90 bpm or less for the more gliding movements, but can be a little faster in beginner contexts, country style vs. ballroom, etc - in both cases, watching the floor can help: do people look like they are falling over waiting for the beat, being rushed to catch it, or simply ignoring it? On the latin side, an american rumba will be faster, an international one slower, but also having a different character in the percussion.

Beware of bridge sections having a different character that may not fit the style of a dance very well, even if the rest of the chart does.

When starting out it may make sense to initially do mixed gigs that alternate you with recorded music. That gives you a break, but it also gives you feedback - if people who were sitting out your sets get up and dance to the recorded music, you may have missed the target (that or they were really enjoying listening to you)

Another idea is that with a teacher or some experienced dancers or two, you could probably 'audition' ideas with just a rhythm section (what's really important) and optionally a piano or even melody instrument approximating the tune - if they think it will work, then you can go to the effort of doing the arrangement.

Avoid meter changes like the plague.

Keep a steady tempo.

Don't play more than two of the same style song in a row.

Maybe ask your dancer friends to lend you a few of their practice cds for song ideas. There are a ton of ballroom cds with compilations of really well-known dance songs on them, usually listed along with the speed and appropriate dance style for the song.

I strongly recommend looking at the MIT dance DJ page. While designed for DJs, the advice is useful for anyone putting together a set of music.

and now...fo rmy two cents on the other stuff;....I really don't nee dthe tired old favorites...juyst make sure if you call it a rumba, its a rumba, and if you call it a wlatz it isn't some fast country thing that just happens to be in 3/4 time...as for ratios;...my preference is 50/50 smooth to rhythm...but realistically speaking it is probably smarter to do 2 rhthym to every 1 smooth song...just my opinion

fascination said:

but realistically speaking it is probably smarter to do 2 rhthym to every 1 smooth song...just my opinion

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Strongly disagree, even if the floor seems too crowded for the more moving dances. If you only play the smooth songs once per several rhythm, it means everyone will dance them and it will stay too crowded. But if you play a balance, enough will sit out any given number that crowding is more reasonable.

Also, personally I think playing by style group is a very bad idea - the only conceivable benefit is if someone wants to change shoes, but few do that, otherwise is just does weird things to the group dance/rest dynamics - much better to keep the assortment evenly spread so that deciding to dance or sit out can be more about who you are dancing with, and less about "this is my one opportunity to do ___ so I have to take it"

Another way of expressing that - a social should be about

1) people
2) dancing
3) music

In another order, it's concert or a competition

not certain how my post says all that you read into it...but I'll clarify...

seems like most folks like to dance rhthym around here...the vast majority...many smooth numbers aren't participated in as much(never mind even considering QS, or jive)...if the orchestra/band is playing for a paying group...my view is that the overall satisfaction level will be higher if the ratio is slightly higher in the rhythm genre...(again, I would personally rather dance the others, but that is my honest assessment...and therefore...that does mean more people(1), dancing(2), to the music(3).

fascination said:

and now...fo rmy two cents on the other stuff;....I really don't nee dthe tired old favorites...juyst make sure if you call it a rumba, its a rumba, and if you call it a wlatz it isn't some fast country thing that just happens to be in 3/4 time...as for ratios;...my preference is 50/50 smooth to rhythm...but realistically speaking it is probably smarter to do 2 rhthym to every 1 smooth song...just my opinion

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Now when you say smooth and rhythm songs, is that also differing the swing from the latin - can we way four different kinds of music: hot & smooth swing, and hot & smooth latin? Should all waltzes be played slow and smooth, or can you mix the waltz ballads with fast Viennese ones? How many waltzes would one want to dance to in an evening? And how many tangos polkas and other non-mainstream dances would be appropriate?

Also, I'm guessing that there's certain styles that also fit with certain age groups, that younger dancers prefer a hotter song list and tempos.

Robin, we seem to be speaking different languages ;-)

Please take a look at the MIT DJ'ing page linked above to get an idea of dance style names/families from the ballroom perspective. C&W, specialty types of swing (as opposed to the somewhat plain ballroom variety), and Argentine style tango will also have their own unique views.

fascination said:

that does mean more people(1), dancing(2), to the music(3).

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Only somewhat related, but one point I was trying to make is that having everyone constantly on the floor should not be the goal. It tends to suggest that quantity of experience is more important than quality. This can come up for a variety of reasons - the group doesn't really click with each other so nobody has what feel like great dances, or everybody is trying to dance at once at simply making it too crowded, or there's an artificial scarcity of some dances meaning that when they are played people who have been waiting for them feel compelled to take the opportunity.

Instead, I think it works best when there's a slight over-supply of opportunity such that people don't feel compelled to take every single one and can put a bit more thought into who they'd like to dance with and how, instead of "this is my one shot at a waltz or samba for the next hour so I'd better take it" - when they can instead say "actually I don't really need to dance this one" then the situation has developed from one of desperation ruled by the playlist to one with time for appreciation of dancers and dancing.

chris...I agree though it would probably help if we knew precisely what venue robin was targeting...

robin--
there are for main styles of ballroom dance, latin, rhythm, smooth and standard...the various dances you are referencing fall with one of those 4 categories for the most part...perhaps you might consider going to a studio dance party to get a better sense of the distinctions.......good luck

fascination said:

chris...I agree though it would probably help if we knew precisely what venue robin was targeting...

robin--
there are for main styles of ballroom dance, latin, rhythm, smooth and standard...

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I'm going for a middle-aged audience who are dancing for the fun of it. People who are 35-65. I'm already having a modest success playing concerts at retirement centers.

I think the confusion is what constitutes the four styles; I'm thinking more about the music than the steps taken to them. Can a piece of music be smooth and latin? Is rhythm another way of saying hot swing? Does standard mean 2-beat?

Robin12 said:

I'm going for a middle-aged audience who are dancing for the fun of it. People who are 35-65. I'm already having a modest success playing concerts at retirement centers.

I think the confusion is what constitutes the four styles; I'm thinking more about the music than the steps taken to them. Can a piece of music be smooth and latin? Is rhythm another way of saying hot swing? Does standard mean 2-beat?

Click to expand...

You really, really, really need to check out what the tempo should be for different dances. The #1 reason I avoid live bands is that their tempos are mostly all wrong. Most common situation is that they will play a piece of music which could be either swing or foxtrot but with tempo too fast to be a good foxtrot and too slow to be a good swing.

Standard does not mean 2-beat. Each dance style covers several different dances. There is some overlap between smooth and standard dances, and between latin and rhythm dances. So a piece of music can be suitable for both smooth and standard or for rhythm and latin, but probably not smooth/latin, there is one exception - a piece suitable for quickstep (standard) can also work for swing (rhythm).