Do followers get easily bored and lose awareness?

R

revolution

New Member
Hi,

Wondering if followers are easily bored, and what needs to be done to keep their awareness sharp. Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware? Or would a simple, sharp, expressive, and connected walk be enough to keep the women aware and expressive?

--
Rev
 
revolution said:
Hi,

Wondering if followers are easily bored, and what needs to be done to keep their awareness sharp. Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware? Or would a simple, sharp, expressive, and connected walk be enough to keep the women aware and expressive?

--
Rev
Click to expand...

During one of my four beginner courses - I have taken four, two in each role - the teachers told us to dance a song by standing still and listening to the music antil we could not stop ourselves from taking a step, standing still and listening to the music antil we could not stop ourselves from taking a step, standing still and listening to the music until we could not stop ourselves from taking a step. We how led in this dance probably felt a bit silly, most of us, but did our best to occasionally take a step where the music kind of asked for it. Afterwards, the teachers asked the followers - but not the leaders! - how they had liked the dance. Of the women who opened their mouths, everyone thought it had been fantastic, best tango ever.

Whatever the followers were here, they were not bored.
 
revolution said:
Hi,

Wondering if followers are easily bored, and what needs to be done to keep their awareness sharp. Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware? Or would a simple, sharp, expressive, and connected walk be enough to keep the women aware and expressive?

--
Rev
Click to expand...

Mercy- this one's bound to open a can of worms...I can only say for myself, fancy figures are not required- but variety is.

A nice embrace, good relaxed and comfortable connection, musicality I can recognize and work with, a confident and clear lead and willingness to play generally make for a good dance. The willingness to play usually inspires creativity and variation in movement, which I think IS a requirement. Lots of fancy figures do not make up for understanding how to vary tempo and dynamics of simpler figures, even something as "simple" as the walk. A fancy move now and then is nice (which could even be something quite small and tricky) escpically if I dance a lot with the person, but is by no means the way I measure a dance. It more often puts me off.

As one of my main teachers said (and he is a very well know person)- it would be next to impossible to make an entire tanda of walking expressive enough even for him to keep someone thoroughly engaged, but complexity is definitely not the key.

Yesterday in fact I had a dance with a very promising beginner, using only walking, weight changes and side steps, and applying variations in them in physical dynamic and tempo- it was quite a nice dance!

Last week we demo'd a dance using only the first two months of material we use for beginners which includes 2 basic turns, rock steps , outside partner and simple walking syncopations and changes in dynamic or tempo. It was very engaging.
 
at least as a non-AT follower, good following actually needs some loss of awareness - you need to let the man dance almost through you as if your brain has been taken out of hte loop - there is not the time to react to a lead with conscious calculations. OTOH, adding your own element of dancing 'selling' the step it certainly does help to have some variety. I'd be interested to hear if its the same for AT...
 
elisedance said:
at least as a non-AT follower, good following actually needs some loss of awareness - you need to let the man dance almost through you as if your brain has been taken out of hte loop - there is not the time to react to a lead with conscious calculations. OTOH, adding your own element of dancing 'selling' the step it certainly does help to have some variety. I'd be interested to hear if its the same for AT...
Click to expand...

Not sure- I haven't done ballroom in years, but I find that I need to remain constantly engaged and in "listening" mode to the leader. Active relaxation, not anticipating movement, but always being aware and ready for any possibility.

So I'm not sure how this plays in to what you do. I don't memorize patterns or figures or motions so in that sense I turn off my brain from thinking about whatever "figures" the leader has in his head for a song, but I try to understand how the lead for differnt things feels, and let my body react to the various sensations in an active fashion. I don't expect a lead to have to push me around like furniture, because I am always being aware of our movement and relation and reacting to it.
 
revolution said:
Hi,

Wondering if followers are easily bored, and what needs to be done to keep their awareness sharp. Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware? Or would a simple, sharp, expressive, and connected walk be enough to keep the women aware and expressive?

--
Rev
Click to expand...

My perspective from what my follows tell me. Also, from my experience as I try to follow also.

No, fancy figures are not required. As a matter of fact, they become detrimental because they are distracting. Sometimes, you knock your partner out of her center of balance, and now, its dangerous for her. In any case, it is distracting and it breaks the tango connection. Your partner can't wait for the tanda to end.

Doing fancy stuff only works if you can lead it well enough that it is smooth, and your partner, does NOT know how to do it, but she can read your lead well enough to follow without prodding, pushing, pulling. If you're not at that level, don't do it.

A simple, sharp, expressive, synchopated and in-tune walk will work. IF you know how to walk.

In AT, your partner needs to be confident enough that you know what your doing, so she can let go, and not think. If your doing something to distract this "Zen-like" state, then you'll bore her.

I've had some truly magical dances before where the ONLY thing we did was walk.

Old threads of mine for your reference:

Don't impress her with your fancy steps! Impress her with your...

"The Walk" in AT
 
bastet said:
Not sure- I haven't done ballroom in years, but I find that I need to remain constantly engaged and in "listening" mode to the leader. Active relaxation, not anticipating movement, but always being aware and ready for any possibility.

So I'm not sure how this plays in to what you do. I don't memorize patterns or figures or motions so in that sense I turn off my brain from thinking about whatever "figures" the leader has in his head for a song, but I try to understand how the lead for differnt things feels, and let my body react to the various sensations in an active fashion. I don't expect a lead to have to push me around like furniture, because I am always being aware of our movement and relation and reacting to it.
Click to expand...


Thats actually sounds rather similar - 'active awareness' is a pretty good way to put it. I try not to learn routines either but in ballroom they are inevitable to some extent and its hard not to learn them in time. Still, you can't rely on them because there are always surprises that cause you to go off in a new direction and step sequence.
 
Andira said:
During one of my four beginner courses - I have taken four, two in each role - the teachers told us to dance a song by standing still and listening to the music antil we could not stop ourselves from taking a step, standing still and listening to the music antil we could not stop ourselves from taking a step, standing still and listening to the music until we could not stop ourselves from taking a step. We how led in this dance probably felt a bit silly, most of us, but did our best to occasionally take a step where the music kind of asked for it. Afterwards, the teachers asked the followers - but not the leaders! - how they had liked the dance. Of the women who opened their mouths, everyone thought it had been fantastic, best tango ever.

Whatever the followers were here, they were not bored.
Click to expand...

To me it sounds like music triggering emotion which is translated into intention then movement. Meaningful emotion, coming deep within. Emotion is a huge part of AT, but can you feel your partners emotion? Or just the physical reaction (movement) to the emotion that is felt? If the emotion is followed it generates convincing and passionate steps. Perhaps this is enough to help the woman with her awareness, while she feels a range of her own emotions and responds with physical action.

bastet said:
willingness to play generally make for a good dance
Click to expand...
I really like that, a good way to keep the follower enganged. As in communication listening, and responding, taking turns. I think I need to listen more to my partner to pick up the subtle cueus and build on that.

elisedance said:
at least as a non-AT follower, good following actually needs some loss of awareness - you need to let the man dance almost through you as if your brain has been taken out of hte loop - there is not the time to react to a lead with conscious calculations. OTOH, adding your own element of dancing 'selling' the step it certainly does help to have some variety. I'd be interested to hear if its the same for AT...
Click to expand...

I don't have much experience following, but I think in AT its the opposite. The more awareness the better the dance. It's a two way communication, where one partner inspires the other through the physical expression of their emotions.

-rev
 
bastet said:
Mercy- this one's bound to open a can of worms...I can only say for myself, fancy figures are not required- but variety is.

A nice embrace, good relaxed and comfortable connection, musicality I can recognize and work with, a confident and clear lead and willingness to play generally make for a good dance. The willingness to play usually inspires creativity and variation in movement, which I think IS a requirement. Lots of fancy figures do not make up for understanding how to vary tempo and dynamics of simpler figures, even something as "simple" as the walk. A fancy move now and then is nice (which could even be something quite small and tricky) escpically if I dance a lot with the person, but is by no means the way I measure a dance. It more often puts me off.

As one of my main teachers said (and he is a very well know person)- it would be next to impossible to make an entire tanda of walking expressive enough even for him to keep someone thoroughly engaged, but complexity is definitely not the key.

Yesterday in fact I had a dance with a very promising beginner, using only walking, weight changes and side steps, and applying variations in them in physical dynamic and tempo- it was quite a nice dance!

Last week we demo'd a dance using only the first two months of material we use for beginners which includes 2 basic turns, rock steps , outside partner and simple walking syncopations and changes in dynamic or tempo. It was very engaging.
Click to expand...
Yup. Exactly. Don't have anything more to add to this.
 
revolution said:
To me it sounds like music triggering emotion which is translated into intention then movement. Meaningful emotion, coming deep within. Emotion is a huge part of AT, but can you feel your partners emotion? Or just the physical reaction (movement) to the emotion that is felt? If the emotion is followed it generates convincing and passionate steps. Perhaps this is enough to help the woman with her awareness, while she feels a range of her own emotions and responds with physical action.

[...snip...]

I don't have much experience following, but I think in AT its the opposite. The more awareness the better the dance. It's a two way communication, where one partner inspires the other through the physical expression of their emotions.

-rev
Click to expand...
Disagree.

At least personally, emotion doesn't have a lot to do with dancing. I can relate to the idea of just having to take a step because you are moved to do so, but it's not an emotional thing. It's more of a "how can anyone possibly sit/stand still when there's good music on that just makes you want to get up and MOVE!!!" sort of thing.

I don't sense emotion from my partner, generally. I feel the movement in his body, and feel his take on the music and react to that, using my own reaction to the music.

As for the last part of your post, I've got to disagree again. What Elise calls "active awareness," and Bastet calls "active relaxation," is exactly what I strive for. I always aim to take my mind out of the loop, and let my body feel the music, and my partner, and the room, and to just respond. When I'm actively thinking about following, it's never a very good dance--either because I've got to be thinking in order to figure out the lead (which is never pleasant), or because I can't get out of my head enough to be in the moment and just dance.
 
revolution said:
To me it sounds like music triggering emotion which is translated into intention then movement. Meaningful emotion, coming deep within. Emotion is a huge part of AT, but can you feel your partners emotion? Or just the physical reaction (movement) to the emotion that is felt? If the emotion is followed it generates convincing and passionate steps. Perhaps this is enough to help the woman with her awareness, while she feels a range of her own emotions and responds with physical action.


I really like that, a good way to keep the follower enganged. As in communication listening, and responding, taking turns. I think I need to listen more to my partner to pick up the subtle cueus and build on that.



I don't have much experience following, but I think in AT its the opposite. The more awareness the better the dance. It's a two way communication, where one partner inspires the other through the physical expression of their emotions.

-rev
Click to expand...


I could see how you can look at it both ways. There is a part of the brain I try not to use (the anticipation part ;)) while dancing. Since for me, every step has the potential of being the last step, I try not to think in terms of patterns, just feeling the movement of the lead. And every tiemn a step is lead, the are multiple possibilites, so I feel I have to be both tuned out (to patterns) and extremely tuned in, conscious and actively aware of the leader.
 
revolution said:
Hi,

Wondering if followers are easily bored, and what needs to be done to keep their awareness sharp. Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware? Or would a simple, sharp, expressive, and connected walk be enough to keep the women aware and expressive?

--
Rev
Click to expand...

I will say one other thing- I guess it kind of goes in line with the other things that make a good, connected and engaged dance for me- is a leader who is able to incorporate his whole body in to the motions, but this may be a personal preference. So things like using a gentle contrabody walking (generated through the spine not the shoulders) I think encourages relaxation in the follow which can enhance the dance...some follows just won't go there and some leaders also...but one can only try... almost every leader I try to initiate this with will respond in kind...but it has to be a subtle suggestion.
 
revolution said:
Are fancy figures required to keep them guessing and hence help them be more aware?
Click to expand...

Some people already said it, although in other words. Still: guessing is exactly what you don't want to do, and shouldn't do. I follower who guesses on steps and moves is a far worse problem than a follower who is unattentive.
 
revolution said:
I don't have much experience following, but I think in AT its the opposite. The more awareness the better the dance. It's a two way communication, where one partner inspires the other through the physical expression of their emotions.

-rev
Click to expand...

Do you think the woman can really think that fast - mean to feel the lead and decide what to do? Somehow I don't - but as said I don't do AT - I would have thought that it is one step harder (following wise at least) than ballroom cause the actions are so fast and often so precise.
 
elisedance said:
Do you think the woman can really think that fast - mean to feel the lead and decide what to do? Somehow I don't - but as said I don't do AT - I would have thought that it is one step harder (following wise at least) than ballroom cause the actions are so fast and often so precise.
Click to expand...
God knows I can't think that fast--dancing or otherwise, LOL.

I don't know that it's any more or less hard than following in ballroom. (Although I don't dance BR, so take that with a massive grain of salt. ;) ) Nor do I really think it's all that more precise. It's just different--a different way of moving, a different mindset to following. For me, at least. Personally, I think AT (following and otherwise) is so much easier than BR.
 
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