Swing Overseas

When I was out googling today, I came across mention of a swing-related dance, bugg, arguably the top dance in Sweden, which evolved from the lindy hop, and that got me thinking.

What about swing overseas, meaning, not in the US? Lindy hop and a bunch of other swing dances developed here. And I know of at least Ceroc/Leroc and now Bugg that developed outside of the US. What else is going on in the swing world outside the US? Swing, just like every other dance form, grows and devlops, right? So what's up overseas? Anybody? 8) :wink:

You've already mentioned a couple. You have some local (national) variants that are a lot like the Ceroc stuff. This is mainly oversimplified swing that people have evolved from people watcing american movies and copying it without actually learning it. 'Complicated' foot patterns like the chassé is lost. And you have some strange stuff called Disco-swing, but I don't know how widespread that is.

Boogie Woogie is international, or at least trans-european (can I say that?). I think it's still bigger than Lindy here. The basic syllabus in BW is six count, but the main difference between BW and LIndy is in the bounce I think. BW has much more leg bouncing while the upper body is supposed to be held more still. This feet movement gives it a very characteristic look, at least for good dancers dancing to fast music. It's very suited for 50's and 60's Rock'n'Roll music and less suited for the big band swing that Lindy is perfect for. Marcus & Bärbl are very good BW-dancers.

There is also something called Rock'n'Roll. Rock'n'Roll in Europe is an acrobatic show dance. (I think you use Rock'n'Roll for something else in the US.) It's still a partner dance, but no longer leadable, so it's not a social dance. It's mainly aerials, but in competitions there are also rounds without aerials but footwork and armwork. I think this footround was a reaction to dancers just doing more and more daring and dangerous aerials. It looks nothing loke swing any more, and music used is mostly modern, but it's derived from the aerial parts of Lindy. The basic step is the six-count nine-step basic with high kicks.

BW and R'nR are, I think, the two big ones in Europe, with an international confederation with competitions and ranking lists.

Oh yeah, ECS and WCS are small in Europe. I think some people are learning some WCS since it's a bit different from the other forms of swing in Europe. But ECS has very little to offer that's not already done in some other variation.

i'm new at this so i cant really comment much apart from whats going on in my own little corner of experience.

the swing scene in London is pretty huge. there is stuff on every single night of the week . the centre of London is geographically pretty small and on tuesdays (for example) there is a choice of 3 different class/club combos run by different organsisations.

the main stuff danced by the group i'm starting out with is lindy with lots of charleston variations, balboa, collegiate shag and boogie woogie.

i've not heard anyone use the terms East Coast and West Coast at all.

like Flat Shoes said, there is a thriving rock and roll scene, but here the dance is usually referred to as jive.

i'm not sure if the UK is actually bringing anything new to swing (not enough experience to tell!) but in my experience its about keeping old dance hall traditions alive, especially novelty dances like the Lambeth Walk and the Madison!

pygmalion said:

What about swing overseas, meaning, not in the US?

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so where does that put Canada Jenn?? :lol:

BettyB said:

like Flat Shoes said, there is a thriving rock and roll scene, but here the dance is usually referred to as jive.

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There's a lot of naming confusion going on. I think what's called Rock'n'Roll in US is called Jive in Europe. Jive in Europe is a simplified type of swing, often formalized into Leroc/Ceroc (or it can be Jive as in Ballroom Latin).

I found some pictures of some people doing rock'n'roll. http://www.rokenrol.cz/Galerie/FotoMCR02ADF.htm

Flat Shoes said:

There is also something called Rock'n'Roll. Rock'n'Roll in Europe is an acrobatic show dance. (I think you use Rock'n'Roll for something else in the US.) It's still a partner dance, but no longer leadable, so it's not a social dance. It's mainly aerials, but in competitions there are also rounds without aerials but footwork and armwork. I think this footround was a reaction to dancers just doing more and more daring and dangerous aerials. It looks nothing loke swing any more, and music used is mostly modern, but it's derived from the aerial parts of Lindy. The basic step is the six-count nine-step basic with high kicks.

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Hi Flat Shoes! I live in France and what you are describing is called Acrobatic Rock 'n' Roll over here. What they call Rock 'n' Roll is indeed danced to a 6 count but it is leadable. When I go dancing there are very few Lindy Hop dancers and most of us dance Rock 'n' Roll with a few simple drops, dips, small jumps but nothing like the amazing things they get up to in Acrobatic Rock! But the guys lead me and it is a social dance!

I have to admit though that we're not very clever with our choice of music. Some places play very modern pop music, others mix rock and jazz. What frustrates me is that most dancers only learn Rock 'n' Roll steps (no Boogie or Lindy etc.) and dance the same way despite the style of music being played. I agree, however, that Lindy is perfect for jazz music and the Rock 'n' Roll that we learn over here just doesn't seem to go as well.

pygmalion said:

...What else is going on in the swing world outside the US? Swing, just like every other dance form, grows and devlops, right? So what's up overseas? Anybody? 8) :wink:

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Hello pygmalion,

I live in London, and have never danced outside England, but I am keen to. One of the attractions of dancing for me is that I can take it with me when I travel, and even language is not a problem. In the future, I'm looking forward to finding places to dance around the world.

It's clear that the USA is the most developed Swing scene in the world, and, as someone who has never visited, it is a big attraction. It's exciting just looking at all the superb US-based websites (I guess there are more US Swing websites than in the rest of the world put together!).

The UK has a fairly small but lively scene. You can get an idea of what it's like from this independent website run by Andrew Winton ...
http://www.swingtime.co.uk

Elsewhere in Europe, I know Sweden is big (it has Herrang), France is exciting (but there a lot of other dance styles like Rock and Roll or Jive to confuse things). I have heard there are a lot of dancers in Russia, and I have met dancers from Germany and Denmark. In general, Swing is more popular in Northern Europe that Southern Europe. The Latin countries like Italy and Spain tend to prefer latin dances like Salsa.

Elsewhere in the world, I know there are things happening in Australia (especially Melbourne, which is a place I would love to visit). Two of the main Australian websites are:
http://www.swingpatrol.com.au/
http://www.sweethotblue.com/about.shtml

I believe there are things happening in China, Japan and Singapore as well.

One quick way of finding out more is to visit the various Swing dance webstes, and have a look on their International sections.

lily said:

Flat Shoes said:

There is also something called Rock'n'Roll. Rock'n'Roll in Europe is an acrobatic show dance. (I think you use Rock'n'Roll for something else in the US.) It's still a partner dance, but no longer leadable, so it's not a social dance. It's mainly aerials, but in competitions there are also rounds without aerials but footwork and armwork. I think this footround was a reaction to dancers just doing more and more daring and dangerous aerials. It looks nothing loke swing any more, and music used is mostly modern, but it's derived from the aerial parts of Lindy. The basic step is the six-count nine-step basic with high kicks.

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Hi Flat Shoes! I live in France and what you are describing is called Acrobatic Rock 'n' Roll over here. What they call Rock 'n' Roll is indeed danced to a 6 count but it is leadable. When I go dancing there are very few Lindy Hop dancers and most of us dance Rock 'n' Roll with a few simple drops, dips, small jumps but nothing like the amazing things they get up to in Acrobatic Rock! But the guys lead me and it is a social dance!

I have to admit though that we're not very clever with our choice of music. Some places play very modern pop music, others mix rock and jazz. What frustrates me is that most dancers only learn Rock 'n' Roll steps (no Boogie or Lindy etc.) and dance the same way despite the style of music being played. I agree, however, that Lindy is perfect for jazz music and the Rock 'n' Roll that we learn over here just doesn't seem to go as well.

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Hi Lily!
What incredibly cute cats!!!!

Acrobatics, indeed! Thanx for the photos, FlatShoes! Great aerials!!! Do the people dance as well, or just fling each other up into the air? I have never witnessed that kind of "dancing"(?) but it looks like great exercise.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the leads huey... and welcome to the Dance Forums!

cocodrilo said:

I have never witnessed that kind of "dancing"(?) but it looks like great exercise.

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I saw a demonstartion of theis style in Mannheim, Germany at the 2003 german Open (DanceSport) Championships. Also saw the (then) world record for "shoulder balls" set... I'm not sure how much dancing I would say was involved, but impressive none the less!

cocodrilo said:

Hi Lily!
What incredibly cute cats!!!

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Thanks

In Norway we have a few very simplified versions of swingdancing called "folkeswing" (the peoples swing) and "fastingswing". (The latter is named after this guy who traveled around and filmed people dancing the former, and then he sat down and used what he learned from the videos to create a more formalized dance. After this he started teaching this "new" swing dance.) I don't dance either of these dances, and my impression of them is that they are way too simplified. It's not fun to watch it being danced (in my opinion). We also do Boogie, Lindy and R'n'R. By R'n'R I mean the acrobatic version.

If anyone wants to see what R'n'R looks like, I have some clips available at ftp://dans.poy.no/competition/NM03/. R'n'R isn't very big in Norway, but there are a few people practicing it.