What makes a good follow?
- Thread starter Liz076
- Start date
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
Hi Liz,
Do you mean specifically as regards swing, or is this regarding following in general?
—Jonathan
Do you mean specifically as regards swing, or is this regarding following in general?
—Jonathan
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
In that case I'm going to move this thread over to the general discussion forum for the moment and, when I have some time later, will provide some of my opinions.
Vince A
Active Member
A follower should:
-Look you in the eye . . .
-Don't anticipate what is coming . . .
-Don't coaster step (WCS, that's stepping off on count 1 before the leader initiates it) . . .
-Have compression, but not strong-arms, nor spaghetti-arms . . .
-Keep their frame . . .
-Have great come-backs (comedy) if they miss a pattern . . . like "Sorry, I didn't attend that class"
-Not correct the leader . . . (I don't mind this if I'm dancing with a teacher or Pro)
-Finally, lay back, wipe off the sweat, light a cigarette, and say "thank you."
JUST KIDDING!!! . . . MissAlyssa will surely get me for this one!
-Look you in the eye . . .
-Don't anticipate what is coming . . .
-Don't coaster step (WCS, that's stepping off on count 1 before the leader initiates it) . . .
-Have compression, but not strong-arms, nor spaghetti-arms . . .
-Keep their frame . . .
-Have great come-backs (comedy) if they miss a pattern . . . like "Sorry, I didn't attend that class"
-Not correct the leader . . . (I don't mind this if I'm dancing with a teacher or Pro)
-Finally, lay back, wipe off the sweat, light a cigarette, and say "thank you."
JUST KIDDING!!! . . . MissAlyssa will surely get me for this one!
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
Well, at the risk of being overly reductionistic, what a good follower should do is follow! As far as the original question of what do I look for from off the floor, well, a couple of things come to mind…
:arrow: If she’s not already dancing, the 1st thing I look at is footwear (yes, seriously!). Some type of dance shoe – be it ballroom to jazz sneaker – puts someone on my radar whereas 2” cork platforms knocks them right off it. [Note: this initial assessment can be over-ridden in two manners: 1. you already know the person in question and know their ability, or 2. you see how they actually dance later on.]
:arrow: If she’s already dancing, then my next set of “criteria” includes body motion and timing. Does her *body* actually move – i.e., is she dancing or just doing steps with arms, legs, torso, etc., still not connected and integrated? Mind you, there’s absolutely nothing “wrong” with this – hell, I was in that stage longer then I’d care to admit – but it is not what I am currently looking for with a prospective dance partner. Similarly, if the motion seems to be there that’s what counts for me, not how “advanced” the choreography is, etc.,...On the timing side, I look to see that the body motion, and at least the feet, are in sync with the music. If not then its pretty easy to discern if this mismatch is being generated by the leader – if so, she’s still on the radar, if not, well, not.
:arrow: Another crucial factor is “does she enjoy it?” – basically this one comes down to facial expression…if its all scrunched up trying to concentrate on G-d knows what, well, that’s all well and good, but its also not for me. I look to see that someone is smiling and enjoying themselves. If there’s a “mistake,” do they freeze/panic/look mortified, or respond more positively? Such positives can, of course, take different forms, ranging from laughing at one’s own misstep while coming back on time (as per above) to asking the leader how that should have worked.
:arrow: Finally, is she dancing *with* her partner? This involves any number of variables including, but not limited to” eye contact, responsiveness, degree and style of “styling”, etc. – Its one thing for her to be adding in her own flair, its another if she’s missing leads because she’s so busy doing her own thing. So, in essence, is she following 1st and *then* styling?
...have to run at the moment, but thought I'd start with what I look for from off the floor.
:arrow: If she’s not already dancing, the 1st thing I look at is footwear (yes, seriously!). Some type of dance shoe – be it ballroom to jazz sneaker – puts someone on my radar whereas 2” cork platforms knocks them right off it. [Note: this initial assessment can be over-ridden in two manners: 1. you already know the person in question and know their ability, or 2. you see how they actually dance later on.]
:arrow: If she’s already dancing, then my next set of “criteria” includes body motion and timing. Does her *body* actually move – i.e., is she dancing or just doing steps with arms, legs, torso, etc., still not connected and integrated? Mind you, there’s absolutely nothing “wrong” with this – hell, I was in that stage longer then I’d care to admit – but it is not what I am currently looking for with a prospective dance partner. Similarly, if the motion seems to be there that’s what counts for me, not how “advanced” the choreography is, etc.,...On the timing side, I look to see that the body motion, and at least the feet, are in sync with the music. If not then its pretty easy to discern if this mismatch is being generated by the leader – if so, she’s still on the radar, if not, well, not.
:arrow: Another crucial factor is “does she enjoy it?” – basically this one comes down to facial expression…if its all scrunched up trying to concentrate on G-d knows what, well, that’s all well and good, but its also not for me. I look to see that someone is smiling and enjoying themselves. If there’s a “mistake,” do they freeze/panic/look mortified, or respond more positively? Such positives can, of course, take different forms, ranging from laughing at one’s own misstep while coming back on time (as per above) to asking the leader how that should have worked.
:arrow: Finally, is she dancing *with* her partner? This involves any number of variables including, but not limited to” eye contact, responsiveness, degree and style of “styling”, etc. – Its one thing for her to be adding in her own flair, its another if she’s missing leads because she’s so busy doing her own thing. So, in essence, is she following 1st and *then* styling?
...have to run at the moment, but thought I'd start with what I look for from off the floor.
MissAlyssa
New Member
a follower should never assume that the leader is going to push/pull them into any certain movement and should never backlead.
DanceMentor
Administrator
In smooth dancing, being able to follow with the body and less with the frame has become increasingly important. The frame becomes "ornamental" while the true following is done through the body. This includes:
-movement forward and backward
-CBM and twisting the torso
-up and down, falling and rising through the legs
-movement forward and backward
-CBM and twisting the torso
-up and down, falling and rising through the legs
MissAlyssa
New Member
true, because if your frame goes...your body should be there too lol :lol:
I'd like to share my experience with learning to follow.
When I had been dancing about three months, I started hearing compliments from my fellow students and many of the teachers I danced with. "Oh Jenn, you're so much fun to dance with. You can follow anything. You feel so light." It was a great ego boost for me, because I was trying very hard to carry my own body weight and move myself on the floor, rather than lean on the leader.
Then I switched coaches. About half way through my first lesson with him, he made me get into dance position, close my eyes, and attempt to follow him. I bumped into him, then he bumped into me. Then we did rumba walks at an arms length. I bumped into him, then he bumped into me. Then we did walkaround turns. I finished my turn and looked. He hadn't turned yet.
After a few weeks of these experiences, a light bulb went off for me. Following is waiting. Following is waiting. No matter how many cool moves I have, I have to wait until the lead opens a space for me with his body. Then I can fill that space anyway I want.
What a humbling experience that was for me. All this time I thought I was following, but I was, at best, doing patterns simultaneously with the lead. At worst, I was getting a visual signal, then leading the pattern myself.
The irony is that many of the guys who used to think I was a great follow, don't think so anymore. Instead of being right there with them every step of the way, I'm trying to be a microscopic step behind. I'm waiting.
And while I freely admit that I'm still a relatively poor follow, I'm a whole lot better than I was last year. And I'm growing.
When I had been dancing about three months, I started hearing compliments from my fellow students and many of the teachers I danced with. "Oh Jenn, you're so much fun to dance with. You can follow anything. You feel so light." It was a great ego boost for me, because I was trying very hard to carry my own body weight and move myself on the floor, rather than lean on the leader.
Then I switched coaches. About half way through my first lesson with him, he made me get into dance position, close my eyes, and attempt to follow him. I bumped into him, then he bumped into me. Then we did rumba walks at an arms length. I bumped into him, then he bumped into me. Then we did walkaround turns. I finished my turn and looked. He hadn't turned yet.
After a few weeks of these experiences, a light bulb went off for me. Following is waiting. Following is waiting. No matter how many cool moves I have, I have to wait until the lead opens a space for me with his body. Then I can fill that space anyway I want.
What a humbling experience that was for me. All this time I thought I was following, but I was, at best, doing patterns simultaneously with the lead. At worst, I was getting a visual signal, then leading the pattern myself.
The irony is that many of the guys who used to think I was a great follow, don't think so anymore. Instead of being right there with them every step of the way, I'm trying to be a microscopic step behind. I'm waiting.
And while I freely admit that I'm still a relatively poor follow, I'm a whole lot better than I was last year. And I'm growing.
I guess it depends on the lead. I prefer the follow to be very aggressive when stepping forward, but not pull away when stepping backward (this is more for Latin/Standard dances, not the social ones.) If you can feel your partner's center through the connection, it helps a lot ... but to really do that, you both need a great deal of strong technique.
Vince A
Active Member
pygmalion,
I'm not sure if it's more of 'waiting' versus not anticipating! In a sense, if you are not anticipating the lead's move, you are waiting - kinda sorta, maybe?
His center should be aimed at your center, which is aimed at his center , but higher toward his chin. This keeps you 'up' and ready! If the lead brings you down his R side for a right-side-pass, by ct 2, you should know what to do and you can do anything you want, as long as you are in place and anchoring by cts 5 & 6.
There are many exceptions to this - a hi-jack . . . the count goes to 8 or more . . . he gives you time to play (and until you anchor and when you do, you are signalling to him "OK, now I'm ready for a (ct) 1." He shouldn't pull you off until you let him know this . . .
Be light, don't break frame, and don't anticipate . . . and play, play, play!
I'm not sure if it's more of 'waiting' versus not anticipating! In a sense, if you are not anticipating the lead's move, you are waiting - kinda sorta, maybe?
His center should be aimed at your center, which is aimed at his center , but higher toward his chin. This keeps you 'up' and ready! If the lead brings you down his R side for a right-side-pass, by ct 2, you should know what to do and you can do anything you want, as long as you are in place and anchoring by cts 5 & 6.
There are many exceptions to this - a hi-jack . . . the count goes to 8 or more . . . he gives you time to play (and until you anchor and when you do, you are signalling to him "OK, now I'm ready for a (ct) 1." He shouldn't pull you off until you let him know this . . .
Be light, don't break frame, and don't anticipate . . . and play, play, play!
Hey Vince A!
Thanks for the visual on where to point my center. I never thought of it that way, but I bet, if I try it, my posture will improve a lot. Will try.
This part, I'm already working on. This is where I insert my soon-to-be-legendary "pause and hippy shake" move. Fun! Oh, and I forgot the killer "attitude look and throw him a kiss." :lol:
Jenn
Thanks for the visual on where to point my center. I never thought of it that way, but I bet, if I try it, my posture will improve a lot. Will try.
Vince A said:
This part, I'm already working on. This is where I insert my soon-to-be-legendary "pause and hippy shake" move. Fun! Oh, and I forgot the killer "attitude look and throw him a kiss." :lol:
Jenn
My post got so many replies, that was really cool!! 
I was talking to my teacher about the assets of a good follow and she did mention most of the characteristics listed in the above threads. The main thing I try to focus on is feeling like I'm dancing WITH the lead instead of either against him, or off in my own little world. In my beginning days, I had the bad habit of dancing on my own. I was corrected throughout time!! :lol:
I think another thing that helps me is learning to lead. I've been working on leading east coast swing, lindy, and collegiate shag. I feel like I can get a feel for what the leads need from me. AND, it's a lot of fun to finally have the control! ha ha haaa!! :wink:
Just kidding, guys!
I was talking to my teacher about the assets of a good follow and she did mention most of the characteristics listed in the above threads. The main thing I try to focus on is feeling like I'm dancing WITH the lead instead of either against him, or off in my own little world. In my beginning days, I had the bad habit of dancing on my own. I was corrected throughout time!! :lol: I think another thing that helps me is learning to lead. I've been working on leading east coast swing, lindy, and collegiate shag. I feel like I can get a feel for what the leads need from me. AND, it's a lot of fun to finally have the control! ha ha haaa!! :wink:
Just kidding, guys!
Liz076,
This is a great topic. It's nice to hear from both leads and follows on this one. (Come to think of it, maybe I'll go to the learning to lead thread and put in my 2 cents worth! )
Yeah. Learning a bit about leading has helped me, too. When I was first learning triple swing, my teacher kept telling me to keep my weight forward on the rock step. I tried it, but didn't really get it. Then I took one group class and did the leaders part. Wow. As soon as I felt how heavy a certain follow felt when she went back over her heels, I understood immediately.
Nothing beats walking a mile in the other person's shoes!
This is a great topic. It's nice to hear from both leads and follows on this one. (Come to think of it, maybe I'll go to the learning to lead thread and put in my 2 cents worth!
)Yeah. Learning a bit about leading has helped me, too. When I was first learning triple swing, my teacher kept telling me to keep my weight forward on the rock step. I tried it, but didn't really get it. Then I took one group class and did the leaders part. Wow. As soon as I felt how heavy a certain follow felt when she went back over her heels, I understood immediately.
Nothing beats walking a mile in the other person's shoes!