Learning steps - group or private?

I have an issue I would like to get other's opinions on. Where do you prefer to learn the actual steps to a figure? In a group lesson or in a private lesson.

I am currently at Senior Bronze level at my studio, but there are no groups for this level due to the lack of the number of students at that level. Recently we had exams and a few of us moved up to this level, but the groups so far have not caught up. I'm finding myself taking groups in steps that I already know and have been examined on. While it is a good thing to keep in touch with older steps, I can only afford one group a week at the moment and want to make the most of it.

I am looking at the moment as to whether it is worth travelling to the second studio (about 30 minutes drive) if they have the group available while they sort out a new group programme at my studio. I have no problem learning the steps in my private lesson, but to cement it in my mind, groups have always been helpful to me.

What does everyone else think about this?

Whatever works best for you, the group lesson at the other studio, or the privates. If you feel that you are not making the progress you want to because of the class levels at your present studio, not much else you can do.

"senior bronze" sets off my warning bells

In general, any system which subdivides "bronze" into more than two levels is more about selling you an enjoyable way to spend lesiure time than it is about providing monetarily efficient training. There just aren't that many unique bronze-level concepts to learn - so systems which define a large number of figures include relatively large amounts of uninformative overlap.

If you want the most efficient value for your money, find someplace that will teach you to do the worthwhile core bronze figures for each dance really well, then will move you on to the silver figures. By studying a more reasonable number of figures just sufficient to embody all the basic ideas of a level, you can learn far more about actually dancing for your money. If you then want variety, you can create it yourself from your understanding of the basic ideas - or at least be in a position to efficiently adopt ideas explained in terms of familiar building blocks.

I'm with Chris...what the heck is "Senior Bronze"?

Personally, I prefer to learn new steps in group classes because privates are so expensive. Why waste time learning a pattern for $65/hour when I can take a group class and learn the exact same steps for far far far less. I use my private lessons to focus on technique questions that specifically pretain to how I understand and do things.

My warning bells are going off, as well. The studio where I started had bronize I,II, III, and IV. Yes, for them, it was a sales game. Just a game. Of course, that was a US-based franchise studio. All I've read here in DF leads me to believe that things are quite a bit different overseas.

I don't have a problem with the way the studio structures their exam programme. The programme starts from absolute beginners so there are 4 levels in bronze, 2 in silver, 2 in gold and 2 in supreme gold (which is considered high level exhibition dancing). I am at the 3rd level in bronze which is Senior.

Each level introduces at least 4 new steps in each of the six dances. The first level in bronze starts with 9 steps has pretty much no technique and is step and partnership based only. Technique is only introduced as an examinable element in the second level and even then does not have to be perfect as it is considered a "work in progress" until Final. The examiner does however want to see a reasonable amount of improvement from the last level of exam completed. As I say I'm happy with this setup as I have moved quite quickly to the third level, compared to others that have gone before me.

I think people are voicing concern as here in the us certain studios sell packages for each sub level and will hold back your progress to get the most money out of you. As an ex kiwi I know that in NZ and Oz that sort of thing doesn't fly as we tend to be very frugal with our money.

When I was learning as a youngster we used to take medal tests that were similar structure to that of the skating exams though I forget the break of the levels.

As long as its the lack of classes holding you back rather than a devious plot to part you with your money then I wouldn't worry too much

Okay, this is turning out not to be quite as bad as it could have been since each sub-level sounds relatively small. Still, it does sound like a fair number of steps before much is taught about their technique. That's fine if most students won't go very far, but not for those who intend to try to really progress their overall dance skills.

The next question I'd considering interesting is if the studio has students in its silver 1,2 and gold 1,2 classes...

tasche said:

I think people are voicing concern as here in the us certain studios sell packages for each sub level and will hold back your progress to get the most money out of you.

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No there is no holding back so that you reach a certain number of lessons before you can go to the next level. As an example, when I initially signed up, I was told that the average is between 35 and 40 lessons per level. I am at level 3 after just 34 lessons!

Chris Stratton said:

Okay, this is turning out not to be quite as bad as it could have been since each sub-level sounds relatively small. Still, it does sound like a fair number of steps before much is taught about their technique. That's fine if most students won't go very far, but not for those who intend to try to really progress their overall dance skills.

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You hit the nail on the head. The first 9 steps actually forms the "social" syllabus, but when you sign up for a trophy programme, the whole social syllabus becomes your first level. Because the basis of the studio is social and not competitive, yes a lot of people do drop out after a while. Only the diehards continue.

There are a couple of students in silver and another couple in gold, but most drop out of trophies after bronze. It is advertised that after bronze the steps move more into an exhibition style, which not everybody is interested in. At this stage, I plan on going as long as I can afford it, hopefully all the way to Supreme Gold! 8)

For steps--I definitely prefer a group class. In my private lessons, I like to focus on technical matters. Usually my teacher throws at least one new step or pattern in a private, but although she doesn't say so, I know that she prefers to focus on technique. I'm pretty quick with steps, so she tends to throw a new set of steps at me, works for maybe ten minutes on learning the steps and then starts focusing on the technique. The more steps I can learn in a group class, the happier she is. And it's all about keeping your teacher happy, right? :wink:

ok, i'll throw in a different twist to this thread.....

In general, i think group classes are great to pick up some steps.

I bought the IS bronze manual and the corresponding bronze waltz video to pickup some steps. I found that so far it is great. I generally learn by repetition and so can go through the foot placement, foot work, timing sequence of steps at least 2 or 3 times. The manual provides the step alignment information, giving me another round of practice in the step. Some basic technique like size of steps - some steps have to be a little bigger or smaller depending if you are on the inside or outside of the turn for example - are also introduced. I only resorted to this because there is no group class for bronze IS waltz available at the moment and during summer there are less group classes in any case. I don't see this as a substitute for real group classes because you have no partner to practice with but it should be a good start to learn more steps.
Don't know yet if this is going to work as well as i anticipate but will see what my private lesson instructor thinks...

I like learning the steps in class and using videos to practice and reinforce what I've learned.

In my opinion if you have good fundementals you can learn new steps and figures from the books and videos or group classes. I ended up teaching myself several of the gold and open steps in Standard from the ISTD book and from various videos.

There is one important caveat, you will need to check the step with a qualified instructor - probably in a private lesson. Once you learn the timing, fotwork, and alignments - I see no reason to waste private lesson time on this - you can focus on any different technique required for that step with your teacher.

Also, if you studio brings in top coaches, you could have that coach do a new choreoghraphy for you. For example, I had been dancing bronze Waltz for about 2 years when a wonderful coach came by and we asked her to do an open choreograhpy for us. I spent 2 hours with her learning about 10 new steps, and putting them together with the rest of what I already knew. Of course it took many future privates to polish the steps, and in reality that is a ongoing process - but it worked well for me.

spatten said:

In my opinion if you have good fundementals you can learn new steps and figures from the books and videos or group classes. I ended up teaching myself several of the gold and open steps in Standard from the ISTD book and from various videos.

There is one important caveat, you will need to check the step with a qualified instructor - probably in a private lesson. Once you learn the timing, fotwork, and alignments - I see no reason to waste private lesson time on this - you can focus on any different technique required for that step with your teacher.

Also, if you studio brings in top coaches, you could have that coach do a new choreoghraphy for you. For example, I had been dancing bronze Waltz for about 2 years when a wonderful coach came by and we asked her to do an open choreograhpy for us. I spent 2 hours with her learning about 10 new steps, and putting them together with the rest of what I already knew. Of course it took many future privates to polish the steps, and in reality that is a ongoing process - but it worked well for me.

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As far as videos for gold level, i assumed that bronze level video teaching is ok since it is basic stuff. I figured for higher level - silver and above - i would rather have an instructor show me that. I was really surprised by the quality of the videos, they are all pro's teaching this stuff on video. The biggest benefit to me is the play-rewind-play again part.
As far as checking with an instructor on the steps, yes, that is exactly what i am going to do. I know the basic step now and can work from there with my instructor. Will find out this saturday if my approach is correct or a waste of time.
I always wondered what the real value of a visiting coach was. They don't know you or your level of dancing so how can they contribute towards your dancing in just 1 hour. Working on some choreography/new routine with a coach sounds like an excellent idea, provided that you tape the lesson or have your instructor with you during the coach lesson so that you can continue working on the routine.

cl5814 said:

As far as videos for gold level, i assumed that bronze level video teaching is ok since it is basic stuff. I figured for higher level - silver and above - i would rather have an instructor show me that

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I think exactly the opposite. Basically if you try to pick up bronze steps without an instructor, you may miss the critical technique. I think there would be a much higher chance of doing something wrong, that you will have to unlearn latter.

By the time you have danced long enough to develop good technique- the chance of doing something really wrong is much less. You understand the terminology better, and know a lot of the common pitfalls. Then it just becomes learning differnt ways to use the technique you have.

I will say that orignally I did try to expand my bronze Standard learning by using the Victor Veyrasset/ Heather Smith tapes early on. I got so many wrong ideas from them you wouldn't believe.

Let me also say that I cherish every opportunity I get to work with the visiting coaches. Unless you have an absolutely stellar coach, the first few lessons with a visiting coach will improve your dancing like you wouldn't believe.



Scott