How will I know ?

How will I now (if it ever happens at all), as an argentine tango leader, that I left the beginner's hell and entered the "intermediate" area ?

Is it a matter of numbers (Like when you turn 21, you can drive a car and vote.)
-) I'll have been taught a certain amount (say, 500) of sequences by my teachers.
-) I'll be able to actually lead a certain amount of sequences (much less of course, say 100)
-) I'll have danced a certain quantity (say, 1000) of tandas
-) A certain number of years (say, three) will have passed.
-) the number of bumps caused by me (usually when doing a back step) will have reduced to something infinitesimal (say one per milonga)

Is it just a kind of magic:
-) I'll have gone to the Chacarita cemetary (Buenos-Aires) and put a lit cigarette in Gardel statue's hand
-) I'll have tried all of the seven different kinds of empanadas

Is it a matter of partner's feedback:
-) Women will stop running away and trying to escape at all costs when I enter the milonga
-) Once I catch one, her "thank you" will come after one tanda (and not after one tango, or even after half a tango)
-) When a tanda begins, a woman will come spontaneously to me for a dance, and then another woman
will intercept her, saying she had already booked me (Well, maybe this is too much for the intermediate level; maybe this happens only to advanced leaders).

Or is it something I'll feel by myself? Like in Dante's Divine Comedy, the souls in purgatory
for several thousand years, one day know by themselves, without any angel having to tell them, that they're allowed to enter the Heaven?

ah glass-hoppa

when you can sacada through the gateless gate, when you can gancho without leaving a footprint on a sheet of rice paper then you are truly a master of your tango destiny, but always
always beginners mind

Wu-tan-go

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had a same problem with salsa: am I a beginner? improver? intermediate? How do I know what level I am at?

I suppose you are out of the beginner stage when your teacher moves you up to the next level, but is it really that important? When I go out dancing and have a blast, I'm happy, I think "hey, I'm good! ", and it doesn't matter what skill level I'm classed as.

I don't think your level in Salsa depends on how much you enjoy it! The happiness is personal and makes people wanna dance with you, regardless of your level (more or less...). Level has to do with what you know...

squirrel said:

Level has to do with what you know...

Click to expand...

But is it important? There are leaders who are clearly very advanced or are even teachers who I find difficult to dance with for whatever reason, and there are guys who may not have as many moves up their sleeve as these advanced dancers but yet are a dream to dance with. I'd take "dream" rather than "advanced" any time. I think it's a matter of connection, and when you connect with your partner, you can have a truly amazing dance -- it may not look particularly amazing to onlookers, but that to me is unimportant. A good dance is what I feel, not what it looks to others, and the same goes to dancers. If someone can give me a great dance experience, he's a good dancer no matter what level he's supposed to be, and if I can give a leader a really good dance, then I'm a good dancer to him.

level probably matters only in competitions or shows... not socially... I dance with the guys I enjoy... very advanced leaders... I have tried only 2 or 3... might be difficult to dance with not in terms of patterns but in terms of style...
I mean, I can do almost any pattern (not sure about 4 spins on 1-2-3...) but, still, them advanced leaders are used to their own style... with their level...
I am one of the most advanced dancers here and I prefer dancing with the advanced local leaders... but I also like some intermediate ones and some beginners... it's all a matter of taste

and don't believe I like dancing with ALL advanced dancers... some I don't!

"4 spins on 1-2-3..."

I'd never have thought that such things exist in argentine tango...
Well, seems I'm really a beginner.

newbie said:

"4 spins on 1-2-3..."

I'd never have thought that such things exist in argentine tango...
Well, seems I'm really a beginner.

Click to expand...

Actually this AT thread has been hijacked our salsa df members Squirrel and MacMoto. MY apologies. They deserve a spanking!! :wink:

I think that the level you are in any dance, including AT, depends on your ability to move without thinking about your steps/moves - intermediate. After that it then becomes your ability to improvise/respond to the music appropriately, or musicality - advanced. Or that's how I categorize it, anyway.

Sagitta said:

newbie said:

"4 spins on 1-2-3..."

I'd never have thought that such things exist in argentine tango...
Well, seems I'm really a beginner.

Click to expand...

Actually this AT thread has been hijacked our salsa df members Squirrel and MacMoto. MY apologies. They deserve a spanking!! :wink:

Click to expand...

Hey, at least we are still on topic (apart from the spins part), and I have done a little bit of AT (not enough to start wondering about my level though).

Sagitta said:

I think that the level you are in any dance, including AT, depends on your ability to move without thinking about your steps/moves - intermediate. After that it then becomes your ability to improvise/respond to the music appropriately, or musicality - advanced. Or that's how I categorize it, anyway.

Click to expand...

Does the ability to interact with the follow feature somewhere in your level definition? I've danced with great movers with good musicality who fail to react to the way the follower (me) dances or what she can/can't do and insist on dancing the way they want. It makes me difficult to connect with the leader, I don't enjoy dancing with them, so I don't see them as truly good dancers.

Also, would you say different definitions apply to the leader and follower?