6..8..6...

ello all!

i've been wondering about the transition between 6 count and 8 count swing... i'm learning lindy and some leads mix it up, which is fun! some lead very obvious 6 count things (like holding both your hands and triple stepping), or some lead with a certain amount of force that *makes* my feet triple step (as in, i'd fall over if i didn't take a triple step)

however, some leads are more subtle/gentle and sometimes i miss the transition from 8 to 6, and we're dancing two different things follows, how do you tell if its changed if its changed? leaders, what do you do to signal it?

goldfish said:

ello all!

i've been wondering about the transition between 6 count and 8 count swing... i'm learning lindy and some leads mix it up, which is fun! some lead very obvious 6 count things (like holding both your hands and triple stepping), or some lead with a certain amount of force that *makes* my feet triple step (as in, i'd fall over if i didn't take a triple step)

however, some leads are more subtle/gentle and sometimes i miss the transition from 8 to 6, and we're dancing two different things follows, how do you tell if its changed if its changed? leaders, what do you do to signal it?

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Hi goldfish. I agree that there are very clear leads for tripling--it feels like you can do nothing but. And then there are not-so-clear leads. What works for me (when it works!): connect, stay in rhythm with my lead, and learn ways to get back on when I end up step-stepping when the lead is tripling and vice versa. I was taught early on that it doesn't matter so much if our footwork matches; what's most important is that we are matching in bounce and body movement in general. Some of the arsenal of fixes that can put a follow back in time with the leader include: kick ball changes, stalls, sweeps, et cetera.

thanks for the advice! kickball changes i've encountered, but stalls and sweeps? :shock: sounds like bathroom maintenance to me...

gotta love all the lindy names!

when you say body movement, do you mean the general placement of where you should end up, or specifically upper/lower body?

For 6 count stuff, the bulk of the move is usually over before 4. If you can tell the pattern is nowhere near over by 4, it is an 8 count move. So, it is a lead/follow thing still. If he keeps you moving after 4, step step then triple step. If by count 4 it feels like "hit the brakes" or "ok that's all for that one", triplestep. Practice (with partners) is the thing that will eventually make this instantly obvious.

You know you don't have to do it all like that though, right? It's just more to keep you busy instead of standing or single stepping. It's progressively more fun the better you get at it.

One of my untested thoughts/ideas for followers is for when she can't tell if it's 8 or 6, she could step step triplestep triplestep step step. So, that's a 6 that gets patched into an 8 at the end, and she ends with that right foot free ready for 1. I doubt I'm the only one who has had that idea. It might be a bad idea. I dunno.

I've seen a bunch of stuff that really wild leaders do where all you can do is single step through the whole thing. So, that's like the next level after 6 & 8 count patterns... moving into the realm of "be ready to drop the patterns & do weird stuff or stunts instantly".

I thought more about it, and this wording was more condensed and might make more sense: If you can triplestep on 5 & 6, it's most likely time to do that. If you are moving too much to triple step on 5, then it's a step step.

I don't know if anyone else feels like I do about 8's and 6's. 8-count stuff always seems so much bigger. Probably because it usually has obvious peaks right in the middle where a 6-count move is usually something smaller, quicker, over & done with fast.

goldfish,

There are some really great discussions on the 6/8 counts in LH . . . do a search for some responses by some of the DF experts . . . such as this one by d nice:

You should stick to the basic rhythms used for eights and sixes and when you need to cut something short to four or extend it to ten (or smaller/larger), triple-step where natural and step-step where natural.

In your example more than two triples in a row doesn't really make sense. So if you are doing four triples that covers eight counts, you should be stepping: step-step, triple-step, step-step, triple-step. Standard eight count rhythm.

(If you have ballet training then you need to understand that your normal posture and movement style are almost the opposite of what you need to do in lindy hop. Think basketball of some other sport where you are required to change directions instantly and at high tempos, everything down and into the floor, pushing yourself forward. Your limbs should never straighten out completely.)
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One easy way to look at it is that if you are turning, changing directions, or find leveraged tension or compression building between your bodys you should be triple stepping. If you are staying in place or walking forward or back as the result of built tension/compression or lack of a lead, then you should be step stepping.

Truthfully it is nice to have this info at an intellectual level but not at all important. Keep your frame, keep your bounce/pulse, remember to move your feet and keep them underneath you and if your leader is actually leading you will wind up where you need to be when you need to be there... the only thing that really matters.

As to fixing mistakes (whether yours or the leaders) that put you on the wrong foot, iff you did six count footwork and it is an eight step twice and you are on the correct foot. If you tried eight count footwork on aq six count begin your next movement with a triple step and you'll be on the correct foot again.

These "mistakes" is how more than half of the cool variations come about in this dance.

jdavidb said:

I've seen a bunch of stuff that really wild leaders do where all you can do is single step through the whole thing. So, that's like the next level after 6 & 8 count patterns... moving into the realm of "be ready to drop the patterns & do weird stuff or stunts instantly".

Click to expand...

yes one of my favourite leads does that. :lol:
:lol: :lol: haven't the foggiest idea what's going on everytime we dance hehe i just cross my fingers, sometimes my feet, wing it and hope for the best

thanks for the help people looking forward to the next dance...

As far as the differences between doubles (step step) versus triples, there is typically a slow down in the lead for a double.

. . . and in WCS, staying in the slot versus getting out of the slot indicates certain things . . . but who is counting. Forget counting for a while . . . and, goldfish, while your fingers and feet are crossed . . . concentrate on having FUN!

d nice said "Truthfully it is nice to have this info at an intellectual level but not at all important."

The reason I think it's nice is because it brings the target in sight, which can speed up the process. But, even without the info, you would have hit the target some day.

It kinda reminds me of reading music. It can take a whole minute or two to sit there & figure out what that stack of notes (a chord) means in the beginning, but soon you just see it and play it. Not because you read the note, looked at what line each note is on & all that... just instantly recognized it. And for chords we don't instantly recognize, we can just play the roots & slide by.

Its even easier than that.

If the leader is leading correctly and the follower following correctly, he should be moving her where she needs to be and when she needs to be there. The followers footwork must follow certain natural patterns when she is moved in certain ways. When the follower is not being "made" to step in a specific way, it is because it isn't needed by the move.

Lindy Hop is a "natural" dance. The movement in it is the same way. When you walk down a sidewalk you are step stepping... when you catch your foot on a crack in the sidewalk and catch yourself you are triple stepping. No thought process needed, the body responds to the movement demanded by outside influence.

Now knowing on an intellectual level hopefully will get you to relax and let the movement happen naturally rather than trying to force specific patterns which then end up being incorrect.

The more you practice your basic rhythms the eaiser it is to relax and let go and let your body respond. Even natural movements can be improved with practice.

Yeah even though lindy hop uses an athletic posture, the partners aren't sports opponents. The follower reacts to the leader with the quickness a sports opponent would have, but the leader's goal is definitely not to psyche the follower out. So, it is easier than reading chords when it comes to reaction time partly because the leader is a partner/aid/teammate not someone working against the follower.