NDCA Nationals in Provo or USA Dance Nationals in Los Angeles

What is the difference - exposure, attendance or prestige in the two comps? Or any difference at all? I have seen many ads for the USA dance comp and it seems to be more well known. None at all for the NDCA Provo comp. My son's partner's Mom is dead set on going to Provo. I just need more info on why it is so important to compete in NDCA Nationals and not USA Dance Nationals. I am a newbie to all these comps. Ty for your help!

Won't speak to these two particular competitions, as others can do a better job, but in general, you're going to look at USADance if you're competing in an amateur couple, and prefer NDCA if you're competing pro-am.

I rarely have the time to engage in Blogs - but thought I could shed some light on this topic that will help couples decide which competition to attend.

Many competitions use the words “National”, “American” and “United States” in their title. It is important to remember, there is only one official National Amateur DanceSport Championship in the USA, recognized by an international authority. That is the USA Dance National DanceSport Championships

There is only one DanceSport organization that the United States Olympic Committee has recognized as the National Governing Body of DanceSport in the USA – USA Dance.

There is only one organization in the USA recognized by the International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) to hold the Annual Amateur Championships that qualifies couples to represent the United States in the IDSF World Championships – USA Dance. Further, the IDSF is the only dance organization recognized by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to conduct DanceSport Championships.

There is only one organization in the USA that selects and then sends National representatives to the IDSF World Championships and World Cups and finances their participation in excess of $65,000 – USA Dance. And this all accomplished with the commitment of a volunteer workforce.

If the goals of your competitive career include winning a National title that actually has international recognition, you should be competing in Los Angeles at the USA National DanceSport Championships. The titles in Provo are granted under license from the NDCA to the American Ballroom Company (for profit organization) and then to BYU via contractual arrangement.

No winners of the event held in Provo receive a spot on the World Team or any official recognition as National Amateur Champions by USA Dance. The event is not governed by the IDSF sporting and democratic principles that athletes competing under the IDSF umbrella worldwide are able to enjoy to guarantee fair competition. In USA Dance you become a “member”, in the NDCA an amateur is allowed to “register”. This is not just a matter of semantics…”Members” have a voice through elections, a chapter structure and elected representatives, “Registrants” do not.

I am sure there are opposing points of view - but if we can keep this thread about the facts, as i have tried to do, it would be helpful to those young athletes and parents that are confused.

Ken Richards
VP of DanceSport, USA Dance

Glad to see that there are dancesport officials combing through DF. It gives some hope that our opinions (i.e. complaints,suggestions, etc.) are at the very least being heard.

Who a comp is recognized by is in most cases unimportant.

Who attends is what really matters.

If you dont have a sense of who the strong couples are, counting the number of entries in your division isnt a bad start.

Chris Stratton said:

Who a comp is recognized by is in most cases unimportant.

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Disagree - In this case we are talking about the "National Championships". Should anyone be able to tempt the dancing public with a name that isn't recognized?

And recognized usually tells a couple something about the rulebook and principles they are dancing under.

And when you say "in most cases" what do you mean?

DanceSport-VP said:

Disagree - In this case we are talking about the "National Championships". Should anyone be able to tempt the dancing public with a name that isn't recognized?

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The recognition that really matters is that bestowed by those who enter.

Your argument is like saying that the US government gains its legitimacy from its membership in the UN.

As a mom and a dancer, if I had a child in your situation, I would opt for the USA Dance Nationals. (The larger regionally based competitions are also EXCELLENT opportunities, and I'm assuming you've already sampled one or more.)

My reasons:
1) It will draw most of the top U.S. amateur couples, both in your child's age division and in the older age division. Provo may have a larger field, because a huge number of Utah couples will compete, but it will be less representative of the country as a whole.

2) If you want your child to see the role models he might aspire to be someday in the Youth and Adult categories, you are guaranteed an awesome opportunity to see them at USA Dance Nationals. A fair number will also be at Provo, but often not all.

3) There are some extra factors involved when competing at altitude. Some people barely notice differences in elevation; other people can have a variety of negative physical reactions to it (windedness, fatigue, nausea). I would want to maximize the odds of my child turning in her (or in your case, his) best performance, so I would either want to get to Provo enough in advance to make that altitude adjustment OR opt for L.A.

ChaChaMama said:

1) It will draw most of the top U.S. amateur couples, both in your child's age division and in the older age division.

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Yes - that, and not the press release spin, is the kind of thing that matters.

Larinda:
Thanks for the reminder - but you should see some of the discusions that take place in my living room... this is tame.

Cha Cha Mama:
Thanks for the perspective of a mom and the actual events

Chris:
The UN analogy is a little far-fetched and for me off-topic. I don't need to defend the legitamcy of USA Dance, the IDSF, the USOC, the IOC when it comes to sports. One event is affiliated with all these and the other event isn't. I am still wondering what you mean by "in most cases". It would seem to imply that for some comps it does matter and for some it doesn't.

On a practical level, both competitions have some unique and strict requirements to deal with. Be sure to read dress codes and (for USAD) prequalfication requirements when making plans.

DanceSport-VP said:

Chris:
The UN analogy is a little far-fetched and for me off-topic. I don't need to defend the legitamcy of USA Dance, the IDSF, the USOC, the IOC when it comes to sports. One event is affiliated with all these and the other event isn't.

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What you keep saying over and over is that people outside the US should be responsible for awarding the right to hold the US championship.

In contrast, what I am saying is that dancers inside the US bestow the real recognition on a competition by participating in it.

HBDM - I as an amateur competitor am going to the USA Dance National Championships in LA. Why? because USA Dance is an organization whose sole purpose is to promote and organize AMATEUR events and is the IDSF regocognized organization. The NDCA is a profesional organization that also hosts pro/am and am/am events.

Nothing against the NDCA, as I also participate in Pro/AM and AM/AM comps held by the NDCA. However, since the question at hand has to do with where do I go to obtain an amateur national title, then the USA Dance National Championships is where I will be for that particular purpose.

Chris Stratton said:

What you keep saying over and over is that people outside the US should be responsible for awarding the right to hold the US championship.

In contrast, what I am saying is that dancers inside the US bestow the real recognition on a competition by participating in it.

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I don't think i said this once. But what i do say - if you are going to bcome the National Amateur Champion for the purpose of dancing in a world championship, the organizaion that is recognized matters.

If you and i dediced to get together and run the Dance Forum National Amatuer Ice Skating Championships - would anyone expect to see our winners at the worlds or the olympics? Of course not...

The quality of th comp in provo is not the issue - it is the perception that confused parents think it is the "National Championships" and that their child should be going to worlds that bothers me... why me - becasue i have had to answer that question from a disappointed parent almost every year for the last 3 years when they findout they spent their money to go to the wrong championship.

When you say the recognition and sanctions don't matter it may confuse a few people that are looking for information.

DanceSport-VP said:

I don't think i said this once.

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Actually you are about to make the awarded by people outside the US argument yet again:

But what i do say - if you are going to become the National Amateur Champion for the purpose of dancing in a world championship, the organizaion that is recognized matters.

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Because it is recognized by the external to US organization holding that particular international contest.

If you and i dediced to get together and run the Dance Forum National Amatuer Ice Skating Championships - would anyone expect to see our winners at the worlds or the olympics? Of course not...

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Because we would not be recognized by the people external to the US who run the olympics. But what would really matter is that we wouldnt have the support of the actual skaters in the US.

Consider if IDSF and USAD added a salsa division. Would this be a legitimate national title? Under your argument yes, under mine it would depend on the reaction over time of the salsa community - probably dissmissive at first, but that might be changeable over time.

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Why does the distinction matter? Because an event that believes it gets its legitimacy from recognition by an international bureaucoracy will be primarily responsible to that bureaucracy, while one that believes it gets its legitimacy from its participants will be primarily responsible to its participants.