Teacher Personality or Ability?

I had a sobering experience today. I had reason to believe that an old friend had left his franchise studio, so I sent him an email, recommending a MUCH BETTER independent studio.

His response? Thanks for the recommendation, and I probably should check it out some day, but my wife really likes her current studio and the personality of her instructor, so they're staying put.

Eeek! They're staying put? Good friends, who've been dancing for years, and who can't dance well at all, courtesy of bad teachers? Grrr. But still, they're loyal. And the only conclusion I can draw is that, for them, it's about personality, not dancing or teaching ability.

Is that wrong? Shouldn't the teacher's ability or experience outweigh their personal appeal? which is more important to you? Why? And is it different between social and competitive dancers? Thoughts? :roll:

Oh yeah, and I do know what I'm talking about. Their teacher is one of my former teachers... a great person, but a pretty bad teacher, overall.

Perhaps your friends feel they are getting a value for the money and time they are commiting at this allegid, much better studio.
And furthermore .. Isn't it their choice when and more importantly where they chose to dance and take thier lessons... You made your choice now...let them make theirs...
1 more thing, .. to insult ones teacher solely based on 1 sobering experience is a little thoughtless and a tad narrowminded in this dancers humble opinion.

Tanzen66

It's times like these I'm thankful for my teacher! I have the perfect mix of wonderful teaching ability and personality!

I get funny ways to visualize steps and moves, which actually work; a teacher who won't let me make up excuses for myself, but prods me to work a little harder without yelling or being mean about it; and a guy who doesn't think he's all that, and is actually quite humble! It's really quite amazing, and I find myself very lucky!

So, at the moment, I can't see having a teacher who's lacking in one quality or has more of the other... :? To me, it's quite scary to have to think about having one or the other! It's sorta like being asked, "Would you rather be blind or deaf?" :shock: It's really not a choice you can make!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

Larinda McRaven said:

SK, if you were to get a phone call or email from a former student at your studio, who had moved on, and they insisted that they had located another teacher that was more wonderful than yours, and they felt that you were being mislead...what would you do?

You say you are happy and your teacher is great. But these are just your opinions. How easily could you be tempted to leave if someone with opinions different from yours were to try to "educate" you?

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That's a sobering question that you ask. If they *honestly* felt that I was being mislead, and they *really* felt that I should try a certain teacher where they were dancing at now, I might take a lesson from that place. Not only would it please the person at that studio, but it would give me a chance to experience a different coaching/teaching style. It would allow me to see what my weaknesses were in what I was learning at my studio, and may point out other flaws and things that I need to work on.

You're quite right to say that they ar my opinions; because they are. Someone else may absolutely *despise* my teacher's style; but it doesn't make it bad to me. I flourish under it. And it could be the same way with the person telling me they had a more wonderful teacher -- they flourish under their new teacher, but I might suffer under them.
I doubt, with the highest sense of sincerity I can (without having been to another studio), that I would not be leaving my Studio any time soon. But if I took a lesson at another studio that was *that* much better, then I would probably try to compromise between the two studios: taking my lessons at my current studio and taking a lesson or two at the new studio every once in a while, to check things out. If it were *really* different between the two studios, I'd probably ask for clearance here on DF, because if I brought it up between the two Studios, they'd probably say the other is wrong.

8) Way to keep me on my toes, Larinda!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

all i hear from is that he's making a choice that makes his wife happy - which probably makes him happy. my best friend once confided to me that when he got married he hated c/w music. but he notes that when his wife listens to it, she smiles more, it cheers her up - AND

"it makes her horny. i've decided that i like country music."

I think it all depends on the person... when it comes to Salsa dancing I'd probably choose the best instructor! But only if I'm ok around him/her! 'cause if I hate the personality I cannot learn... but we don't need to be friends, you know... I learn something...


For other areas of my life, it depends...

Tanzen66 said:

Perhaps your friends feel they are getting a value for the money and time they are commiting at this allegid, much better studio.
And furthermore .. Isn't it their choice when and more importantly where they chose to dance and take thier lessons... You made your choice now...let them make theirs...
1 more thing, .. to insult ones teacher solely based on 1 sobering experience is a little thoughtless and a tad narrowminded in this dancers humble opinion.

Tanzen66

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Hi Tanzen66. Welcome.

Wow! You didn't care much for the way I phrased my question, did you? Good points, since you don't know my history.

But I have studied at both studios, with both teachers in question, and I do know the resumes and relative levels of ability of both. The teacher my friends are staying with is a social dancer with less than five years' experience and only in-franchise training in American style only. And charges roughly $120/hour for lessons. The independent I referred them to has fifteen years (or more? Gotta check) experience in teaching, fairly high level competition, choreography, AND social dancing, managing a studio and training other teachers. He also does American and International styles, theater arts and C&W. And has both in-franchise and externally applied certifications -- a bunch of them. And he charges a little more than half of what the franchise charges.

I didn't make the statement that he's better lightly. Not at all. As it so happens, I LIKE both teachers very much, and I never would have referred my friends if I hadn't believed that they were no longer attending the franchise studio. I don't believe in stealing business from studio to studio.

But when I referred them, it's because I know from personal experience where the better quality teacher is. 8)

As it so happens, I think Larinda is right. My friends know what/who they like, and they're getting what they want right now. That's okay with me. 8) I just thought this might make an interesting topic of conversation. :wink:

That said, welcome again. I look forward to more conversations with you.

Hm. Interesting questions. It partly depends what the people are in it for. There are some studios that specialize in creating their own social atmosphere, so it's about taking the lessons but also participating in the full social life of the studio--and if that fulfills the people who are there, then they naturally wouldn't need to go elsewhere.

If on the other hand, they actually are getting out social dancing at other places, or maybe attending competitions, then what they're not getting might be made more clear to them. As in Larinda's example of the tae kwon do lessons--yes, from inside the dojang you don't know how what you do may compare with other places. And if you're just there to get a workout and only doing it there, then as long as you're happy with it, it doesn't really matter. But if you decide to take the tournament route (and if you don't like broken noses and stuff, I don't necessarily recommend that), it will be very clear what you're getting and what you're not. So it all depends on what you're doing and where. What Jenn's friends are getting might be fine inside the studio, but not so much outside. If they're not doing a lot of social dancing outside, that doesn't matter so much.

But again, I don't think the difference is so much a matter of competitive versus social dancing. Good dancing is good dancing, and what you do in competition is technically the same as what you do on the social floor--it's only different in degree. So I never buy the stuff I hear from people who defend bad teaching by saying, "Oh, well so-and-so is really interested in social dancing rather than competition." There's no difference. You know how to dance, or you don't. You're getting adequate instruction or you're not. And what will show that is when you step outside your studio into the larger world and dance with people who know how to dance, but who've never danced with you before.

pygmalion said:

Shouldn't the teacher's ability or experience outweigh their personal appeal?

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If your goal is to become an excellent dancer, and to learn quickly and efficiently than a teacher's ability and experience will be a major factor. But if you only want to have fun, and won't ever dance competetively, or with really excellent dancers, it doesn't really matter. It would be better to have a fun teacher with personality plus who makes learning (even if it isn't the best technically) to dance fun rather than a technically expert teacher whose personality you can't stand.

Of course the best choice would be to have the most technically expert teacher with a glowing and supportive perosnality, but those characterisitics don't necessarily travel together.

pygmalion said:

which is more important to you? Why?

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If you make me choose one or the other, a technically expert jackass, or an inept but fun teahcer, I would have to go with the expert because of where I am in my dancing.

However, most people around here only want to be adequate social dancers and so would probably take the fun teacher. In fact that is what almost everyone here does. Most people avoid the competition teacher and take classes with the rest of us because we are more fun to have as teachers.

pygmalion said:

And is it different between social and competitive dancers?

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I'll agree with Genesius Redux that good dancing is good dancing, but not everyone agrees with that statement. Sometimes "good" dancing is really "good enough" dancing. It depends on what peoples goals are, I think. Do they want to have fun, or do they want to dance well? For me, it's more fun if I dance well, but not everyone has the same level of commitment that regular Dance Forum addicts have...

Kevin

One more slight twist on Jenn's original question. I wonder if the couple-in-question's motivations are about being happy with their existing teacher / relationship, or about not wanting to risk the unknowns of starting up with a new teacher's personality / expectations / etc. and risking the alienation of their current, if mediocre teacher. The devil you don't know vs the devil you do.

Sticking with a mediocre instructor might also be one partner's way of moderating the other partner's more intense interest in dance, (shades of the "dance addiction" thead) or some other relationship dynamic. Ah, the tangled webs we (potentially) weave...

What an interesting debate. As a competitive dancer you have to search out the best instruction you can find. This is really non-negiotiable. For very similar money you can get massive differences in improvement. That much said, there is little happiness in training with a teacher you dislike or who makes you feel bad or being in a characterless studio or one where you feel so much competitive pressure and you get stressed. We practice at a social studio filled with average teachers. The people there are so friendly, so fun and so interested it is just a pleasure to be there - it is like a home away from home. I would tell anyone who is just dancing for pleasure that this is a great place to dance.

I do feel the personality of the teacher, the atmosphere of the studio and the social aspects of associating with one's fellow dancers can be enough to keep a student where they are and enjoying themselves very much, even if they don't improve as fast as they possibly could. It also may keep some people dancing who otherwise would just give up altogether.

Even if you think you are doing your friends a big favor by switching them, their dancing may improve, but you cannot be sure their enjoyment of it will improve too!

Mary has a good point. Sometimes it is not about the quality of teaching. Some people have very good paying jobs that usually come with a lot of stress. Going to a dance studio to get some basic instruction and escape the days issues is what it is about.

I have a very stessful job, then I go to the Dance Studio and practice or take lessons, and then I can come out of there feeling more stressed or less stressed. This can be tough, but I like the dance stress sometimes. I like going to comps and putting my hard work to the test. My job is primarily helping people with technical issues. No matter how much work I do or how well I do it, the issues happen every day. I can fix a big problem and the next day something else breaks and the customer thinks I broke it. It is a never ending cycle of problems, and the harder I work, the more hard work I get. But dancing is a continous activity that seems to give me more back than I put into it. I love the new things I learn, I like trying to get better and I love the fact that my wife and I are doing it together.

It is hard to get the best of both worlds, the pep rally social atmosphere of a chain studio and the great instruction at a great price you can get from an independant studio. But the friendships can grow at either studio.

But I hope that the teachers at that person's studio are sincere. I feel that the teachers at my first studio were only my friends as long as was buying their packages. They don't acknowledge my existance since I left and turn the other way at the local mall rather than walk by me and say "Hi".

tsb said:

all i hear from is that he's making a choice that makes his wife happy - which probably makes him happy. my best friend once confided to me that when he got married he hated c/w music. but he notes that when his wife listens to it, she smiles more, it cheers her up - AND

"it makes her horny. i've decided that i like country music."

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

DanceAm said:

But I hope that the teachers at that person's studio are sincere. I feel that the teachers at my first studio were only my friends as long as was buying their packages. They don't acknowledge my existance since I left and turn the other way at the local mall rather than walk by me and say "Hi".

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:evil: :x :evil: They don't sound much like teacher's *I'd* like to have! Not even saying "hi" is just plain rude; even if you aren't dancing at their studio anymore.

Sakura Kitty :kitty: