A facet of Villa Urquiza

One facet of the Villa Urquiza dance tradition is expressed by Carlos & Rosa Perez, who have been sharing their 1950's era style of dance in their Villa Urquiza neighborhood with countless students for many years.

Here Hiroshi & Kyoko Yamao, 2009 Argentine Tango World Champs of Salon style describe the teaching methods of Carlos & Rosa:


Here are Carlos & Rosa


Carlos & Rosa dance to “Café Domínguez”

Carlos Perez and Rosa Forte

He appeared in the Solo Tango television program, "Codigos de Milongas" on July 22, 2006, in which he said he danced from 1953 to 1964 and later returned to dance in 1994 with his wife Rosa after a 30-year absence.

They have become the Villa Urquiza style ambassadors who train all the salon champions. Anyone with dreams of winning a salon title has to study with them.

All I see in their tango is figures that don't fit the music, but please the audience. They couldn't dance in crowded milongas. Their tango is for those who dance exhibitions, not social tango for the milonga.

jantango said:

... They couldn't dance in crowded milongas. Their tango is for those who dance exhibitions, not social tango for the milonga.

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Crowded milongas?

I've spoken to people who regularly dance in the Villa Urquiza milongas. They say that there are times when the floors are less crowded, early in the evening or late at night (which is actually early in the morning) and that's when they say you are more likely to see people dancing in a way that they would not dance when the milonga is more crowded.

but maybe "crowded milonga" is in the eye of the beholder. The milongas of Villa Urquiza include the historic:

Sunderland Club, Lugones 3161, Villa Urquiza
Club Sin Rumbo, José P. Tamborini 6157, Villa Urquiza

Sunderland Milonga
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Sin Rumbo Milonga
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If these are "crowded milongas" you don't wan't to come to New York City's popular milongas, like Nocturne milonga on Saturday night or RoKo milonga on Sunday night.

But from what I understand the crowded downtown areas of Buenos Aires had crowded milongas that the suburban milongas, like those in Villa Urquiza in the outskirts of the city did not have.

jantango said:

They have become the Villa Urquiza style ambassadors who train all the salon champions. Anyone with dreams of winning a salon title has to study with them.

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Good grief - why? If I saw them dancing, I wouldn't give them a second glance, and would assume that they had been dancing about three months. What am I missing? In the clip, linked to above, the crowd seem to clap every time she picks up her 'free leg' and almost climbs into an ocho. I'd go to the bar. But surely, I'm missing something ...

UKDancer said:

Good grief - why? If I saw them dancing, I wouldn't give them a second glance, and would assume that they had been dancing about three months. What am I missing? In the clip, linked to above, the crowd seem to clap every time she picks up her 'free leg' and almost climbs into an ocho. I'd go to the bar. But surely, I'm missing something ...

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Because you judge a teacher by how their students dance, (and their students routinely win the salon competition).

I suspect their age has something to do with the applause.

UKDancer said:

Good grief - why? If I saw them dancing, I wouldn't give them a second glance, and would assume that they had been dancing about three months. What am I missing? In the clip, linked to above, the crowd seem to clap every time she picks up her 'free leg' and almost climbs into an ocho. I'd go to the bar. But surely, I'm missing something ...

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It's you that's not missing a thing, I don't understand the enthusiasm
for Los Perez either.

dchester said:

Because you judge a teacher by how their students dance, (and their students routinely win the salon competition).

I suspect their age has something to do with the applause.

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I'm not that charitable, I'm afraid. If a teacher steps out onto the floor to perform, I'll judge the performance. Perhaps they were incredible, before 1964, and the audience were expressing affection or respect, rather than appreciation. Perhaps they were all tourists, and wouldn't know the difference?

Perhaps the competition is rigged: it wouldn't be unknown.

UKDancer said:

Good grief - why? If I saw them dancing, I wouldn't give them a second glance, and would assume that they had been dancing about three months. What am I missing? In the clip, linked to above, the crowd seem to clap every time she picks up her 'free leg' and almost climbs into an ocho. I'd go to the bar. But surely, I'm missing something ...

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the Emperor's New Clothes.......

I couldnt see anything to get excited about either.

UKDancer said:

I'm not that charitable, I'm afraid. If a teacher steps out onto the floor to perform, I'll judge the performance. Perhaps they were incredible, before 1964, and the audience were expressing affection or respect, rather than appreciation. Perhaps they were all tourists, and wouldn't know the difference?

Perhaps the competition is rigged: it wouldn't be unknown.

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I guess I misunderstood your prior question. I thought you were asking why people would want to study with them.

How does it work - tango politics

Does someone here know details of their training?

Please watch their students or campions. There is such a high recognition value in all of their dancing. (Especially the foreign couples almost dance like cloned.)

So I wander how they have been taught. I hardly belief that Carlos still can show them all these stereotype planeo-enrosque-lapiz chains. Because on the floor he does not look as agile as his students.

Are there co-trainers? Or is it possible that all their students already are that excellent when they approach to Los-Perez and only receive kind of a dubbing? (After signing an exclusive contract, of course) That would sound like a esprit de corps network. Argentine Tango is a big deal. The representatives of the other three tango religions actually fell behind.

So how does it work?

By the way, have you heard of VU dissidents? Think Los Perez is 2nd generation VU? Heard that there was a break in the succession. Is there any longer a powerful lineage of the true 1st generation disciples?

And if you find this public forum was not suitable, we can switch to pms.

dchester said:

I guess I misunderstood your prior question. I thought you were asking why people would want to study with them.

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For those who do wonder why people would want to study with them,
I agree with D that appreciation of the dance of some of those who have studied with them may be a factor. This link gives a brief bio of Carlos & Rosa & mentions some of the people who have:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160418223617/http://www.tangofestivalberlin.de/2010/?eng=cyr

among the recent World Champions are Dante Sanchez & Ines Muzzopappa, Daniel Nacucchio & Cristina Sosa, the couple interviewed above - Hiroshi & Kioko Yamao, Sebastián Ariel Jiménez & María Inés Bogado and the 2011 winners Diego Benavidez & Natasha Agudelo.

opendoor said:

Does someone here know details of their training?

Please watch their students or campions. There is such a high recognition value in all of their dancing. (Especially the foreign couples almost dance like cloned.)

So I wander how they have been taught. I hardly belief that Carlos still can show them all these stereotype planeo-enrosque-lapiz chains. Because on the floor he does not look as agile as his students...

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Everything I've heard about Carlos & Rosa's methods from others pretty much said the same things that Hiroshi & Kyoko said in the above video. Diego Benavidez said that they spent an hour walking & Natasha said the same things that Kyoko did, and added that Rosa taught them to match their adornments to the available space. Daniel Nacucchio said he did nothing but walk for something like a year, and learned a number of varied ways to walk (he mentioned a number in the teens). I found it interesting that both Diego & Natasha said that what Carlos & Rosa gave them was less about technique & more about love for tango & the means to express that in a way that was "simple & natural". But don't focus only on Carlos - these couples are appreciated for their dance as a couple, so what Rosa brings has to be considered as well. Dancers like Ines Muzzopappa, Natacha Poveraj, Cristina Sosa or Maria Blanco could probably make anybody look good.

Daniel Nacucchio, Cristina Sosa, Carlos Pérez y Rosa Forte


as for the planeos, enrosque, lapices - I mostly heard that was stuff a guy practices on his own.

Those of you who don't need to rely on English subtitles can learn more about Carlos Perez and Rosa Forte in three half-hour interviews that were uploaded this week.

www.youtube.com/junandomilongas