Purposeful Intimidation in Social Dancing

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it seems like whenever my wife and I go to the partty at a studio here in town that especially caters to competitors, that there is a competition going on at the dance. For example, when we are doing a travelling dance, it seems like people will do things to cut us off. We are pretty good dancers and maybe we are some sort of threat to them. I just don't know. It's one of those things that you can never be sure if someone was purposely trying to get in your way at a social dance, but it seems to happen more often at this particular studio. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

I have't been to that many ballroom parties yet. The ones I've been to involve mostly old folks. Whenever my partner and I go to these parties to practice, we always run into lots of people just because we travel more (like all competitior do). Sometimes we just happen to run into the same people over and over again. I don't know if you have the same case, but that's just my partner and I in our town.

If particular people are trying to cut you off on purpose, they don't really deserve to be dancers. I mean seriously. They are doing a gentleman's sport but they do not possess the essence of a gentleman.

I think it's very easy to assume someone's purposefully "cutting you off", be it in a competition or in a social dance. It's surprisingly difficult to actually cut someone off in a subtle way.

I've tried it with a friendly couple in a practice hall once, and it is hard enough to predict where they're going to go. Following them works, but only at the expense of the quality of our own dancing. I'd be very impressed with someone who can dance their best while intentionally cutting off another couple...

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that when someone "cuts me off", it's a) probably just a coincidence and b) seeing they're there first, i'm the one responsible for any crash. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but i reckon out of 10 times i thought someone intentionally danced in my way, at least 9 i was wrong. In the end i'm better off giving everyone the benefit of the doubt...

If there's a space, it belongs to whomever gets there first, no matter whether or not you intended to do so. As long as the other couple gets there first and does not jostle you in order to do so, it's their space and you need to do a better job of avoiding them.

If you are frustrated with them for always being around you, consider that they are very likely frustrated with you for always being around them.

I'd agree, they're not cutting you off deliberately. In fact, they're probably unaware of you except as a moving obstacle on the dance floor that they need to avoid. Social floors get crowded, and couple zoom into any free space that opens up. Its nothing personal.

I remember one guy who apparently did take it personally. When Warren first started taking me dancing we went to a variety of social dances. Even though I was a beginner we moved at least twice as far as the average couple, so we were constantly passing people. Warren is really good at not hitting anyone, but after one dance a guy came up to Warren and was really upset at Warren for cutting him off. (Neither of us had even noticed him before this.) He was taller than Warren and a good deal heavier. Clearly thinking his size gave him an advantage that his dancing did not he started shaking his fist in Warren's face and threatening to settle this outside.

Moral of the story: Don't take it personally, because its not personal. Also, if you must take it personally remember that competitors have partners before you start threatening them. :wink:

I'd worry more about people crashing into you. I always get into trouble there.

I would doubt that anyone would intentionally try to cut you off, just as one shouldn't be intentionally cutting dancers off at a competition (but who knows, right?). Most dancers just are dancing what they know or doing their routines -- again, which I prefer one does on their own time on a practice floor when there are no obstacles on the floor. Perhaps they want to practice their routines in the context of one of many couples at a "social dance", but I just am not a big fan of that either.

I'm not entirely sure exactly what to say other than stay closer to the center during traveling dances so the speeders can pass you closer to the wall. Stay further out in more stationary dances near the middle of walls.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Actually, I have an OSB on tape where the Pro Standard final this happens.... And it was SO obvious from the bird's eye view camera that it was happening.

Do you know many people at that studio? If they are a competitive studio, have you competed against anyone there? Is it possible someone there has a beef with you from way back? Beauty pageants aren't the only industry where cattiness abounds...

Elizabeth said:

Clearly thinking his size gave him an advantage that his dancing did not he started shaking his fist in Warren's face and threatening to settle this outside.

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So what happened outside? :twisted:

I think Joe was right... the space really is first come first served. Although, their is common courtesy, too, which means if you let that fast person have the space and blow bye you, that keeps them off your back for at least one lap.

I've never been yelled at, but I had a professional friend that was - shaking fist and all. I really tend to take it down a notch or two when dancing in a big group, but when a lane opens up, I have no problem taking the chance to use one open left box to take the whole longside (people kind of get out of the way so they can watch ;-)).

Porfirio Landeros said:

So what happened outside? :twisted:

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Well, let's just say he doesn't bother us any more.

Warren

(Okay, what actually happened: I was kind of speechless because I not only couldn't remember cutting him off, I couldn't remember seeing him on the dance floor at all. Before I could react, Elizabeth stepped up to him, nose to nose, told him off, and offered to beat him up outside. He retreated in confusion.

(After that, Elizabeth had a good argument that the "protect" phrase belonged in her wedding vow rather than in mine!)

Warren J. Dew said:

Before I could react, Elizabeth stepped up to him, nose to nose, told him off, and offered to beat him up outside. He retreated in confusion.

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THAT_IS_AWESOME

With the experiences I have had with couples cutting other couples off, more often then not they aren't necessarily doing it on purpose. But they are just demonstrating really bad etiquette by not paying attention to any other couples around them. Especially with social dances, you should ALWAYS be cautious so that you don't run into other couples, but usually floors are crowded so not all accidents can be avoided.

DanceMentor said:

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it seems like whenever my wife and I go to the partty at a studio here in town that especially caters to competitors, that there is a competition going on at the dance. For example, when we are doing a travelling dance, it seems like people will do things to cut us off. We are pretty good dancers and maybe we are some sort of threat to them. I just don't know. It's one of those things that you can never be sure if someone was purposely trying to get in your way at a social dance, but it seems to happen more often at this particular studio. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

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They almost certainly aren't doing it on purpose. Competitors just naturally go for any open space, and if they happen to get there before you, it may seem like they "cut you off" on purpose - but it's much more likely that they just wanted to get to the nice open space where they could dance out. You could even take it as a compliment that they trust your floorcraft enough to know you won't just barge through and crash into them.

When I get "cut off" like that, I take it as an opportunity to use my floorcraft - varying my next figure to go off in another direction around them, or whatever. If you get stuck often, you could ask your instructor to give you some figures that are useful in that kind of situation (checks and stuff).

DanceMentor said:

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it seems like whenever my wife and I go to the partty at a studio here in town that especially caters to competitors, that there is a competition going on at the dance. For example, when we are doing a travelling dance, it seems like people will do things to cut us off. We are pretty good dancers and maybe we are some sort of threat to them. I just don't know. It's one of those things that you can never be sure if someone was purposely trying to get in your way at a social dance, but it seems to happen more often at this particular studio. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

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I know what you mean. I've seen it happen at some swing dances too, just seems like there's one in every crowd that just has to show off their huge ego (but relatively smaller intelligence) by completely disregarding others around them. I haven't felt "targeted" as such but still it annoys me all the same when someone tries to show off and comes out a complete jackass in the attempt.

Funny thing is, I've encountered a lot less of it here in Atlanta than I did back up in Beantown.

I'm pretty regularly on the floor with more advanced competition couples, and once I started to feel like it was okay for me to be there (intruding on their space), I find them no longer intimidating. Most have good control and if they miss and hit us... oh well. I'm no longer very appologetic about spoiling someone's routine, especially if what puts me in their way is more characteristic of the dance than the routine they are attempting.

Social dancing, there are really only two things I have tended to find intimidiationg about other couples. The first is people doing things really out of character with a dance - specficially a wall of quick pivots in foxtrot. Something like that which doesn't really "fit" ends up looking out of control, and thus dangerous.

The other is on occasion when dancing with really new beginners such that I realize it's best to get us to the center and just do stationary boxes. It turns out not to be safe place - one reason is that competition couples do try to make use of the center. Another is that there are enough slow/stationary couples around the outside that it's quite natural for those moving to dodge to any free area at the center. Of course since this makes the center unsafe, it's no wonder the stationary beginners stay at the edges. People standing on the edge of the floor tend to add to the problem too... less popular dances like quickstep can often have couples not intending to dance taking far more than a resonable amount of time to clear the floor.

Purposefully intimidating others: I tend to save that for one common, but extremely unwise habit. Lots of people get bronze quickstep routines that aren't as long as a competition wall, and end in a natural hesitation turn. You'll get a whole bunch of couples travelling down a wall together, then one pops the heel pull hesitation at about the 2/3 mark and prepares to cut across everyone's path onto an improperly placed short wall. I've mastered the "if you do that I WILL run you over" stare for this occasion, and it usually persuades them to delay. Wiser ones would learn to figure out when it's appropriate to extend the wall closer to the actual corner. Or if you do your natural and see other couple bearing down on you, to simply do a backlock running finish to stay in your lane until they have a chance to turn inside you. (Yes, today I could do a fishtail... but then the couple behind me has to do TWO fishtails... )

Warren J. Dew said:

Competitors just naturally go for any open space, and if they happen to get there before you, it may seem like they "cut you off" on purpose - but it's much more likely that they just wanted to get to the nice open space where they could dance out.

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I am grateful that professional race car drivers do not behave similarly in their highway driving.