elisedance
Active Member
I don't think there will (could?) be any dissention on that L.
the quantal shift - good to great and fast?
- Thread starter elisedance
- Start date
2 cents on authentic vs. imitation
DF newbie emerges from lurkdom:
Can it be taught? I'm think not, and that's the reason I ditched plans to become a music teacher in the public school system. For me, music matters, dance is dictated by the music, I'm offended by a dull foxtrot, love it when music makes it impossible to stand still. Others don't feel that way at all, and I can't make them feel it. I can lead them to the water, but if they don't want to drink, I cannot create thirst.
Frex, Spouse has no interest in dance, no sense of rhythm, no path to understanding what happens within me when I dance. I was born with authentic musicality, he was not, we're done. I try to explain to him the freedom and exhilaration that comes in following a beautiful lead through a gorgeous song, and Spouse sees a man with his hands on me. (Sigh. Well, that's a separate issue).
It's similar in other areas. I can't see design, color, shape, form, in a painting or sculpture, in the same way that Spouse, or my friends in the visual arts, can. I have no eye, in short. Yet, though I believe that I can learn to "see" better, I don't think I can acquire that innate, intuitive response to the visual arts that I have in music (or for that matter, literature). Do education and training make a difference? To some extent. But authentic eye or ear is inborn.
I'd like to be proven wrong on this; would love to be able to look at a Pollock or Picasso, Tintoretto or Tiepolo, and get it, the way I get Mahler or Ella or Celia Cruz. The big laugh here is that I minored in Art History in college -- so I know my Dali from my Durer, but it's analytical, not emotional, imitation, not authentic. In terms of this thread, LB, not RB.
I don't know if this answers the question in a way that others want to hear. But it's my answer. YMMV.
Now, back to lurking.
DF newbie emerges from lurkdom:
Can it be taught? I'm think not, and that's the reason I ditched plans to become a music teacher in the public school system. For me, music matters, dance is dictated by the music, I'm offended by a dull foxtrot, love it when music makes it impossible to stand still. Others don't feel that way at all, and I can't make them feel it. I can lead them to the water, but if they don't want to drink, I cannot create thirst.
Frex, Spouse has no interest in dance, no sense of rhythm, no path to understanding what happens within me when I dance. I was born with authentic musicality, he was not, we're done. I try to explain to him the freedom and exhilaration that comes in following a beautiful lead through a gorgeous song, and Spouse sees a man with his hands on me. (Sigh. Well, that's a separate issue).
It's similar in other areas. I can't see design, color, shape, form, in a painting or sculpture, in the same way that Spouse, or my friends in the visual arts, can. I have no eye, in short. Yet, though I believe that I can learn to "see" better, I don't think I can acquire that innate, intuitive response to the visual arts that I have in music (or for that matter, literature). Do education and training make a difference? To some extent. But authentic eye or ear is inborn.
I'd like to be proven wrong on this; would love to be able to look at a Pollock or Picasso, Tintoretto or Tiepolo, and get it, the way I get Mahler or Ella or Celia Cruz. The big laugh here is that I minored in Art History in college -- so I know my Dali from my Durer, but it's analytical, not emotional, imitation, not authentic. In terms of this thread, LB, not RB.
I don't know if this answers the question in a way that others want to hear. But it's my answer. YMMV.
Now, back to lurking.
On second thought... now that I've read this over, I realized that, if you'd asked me four years ago, I would have told you I could never, ever learn to dance, that it just wasn't in me. I had fine motor coordination (can play musical instruments, use a computer, crochet) but gross motor coordination was just ridiculously outside my abilities. Couldn't throw or catch a ball, f'rinstance, and *would never be able to*.
I'm not touting myself as the dancer of the century. But I am dancing, and I am improving. Is acquiring physical ability the same as learning authentic musicality? I don't think so. Practicing rote repetitions of movement is an LB moment, I think, and innate musicality is pure RB. I am daily thankful for my teacher's emphasis on the emo side of dance, not endless drilling of steps.
Signed, Confused
I'm not touting myself as the dancer of the century. But I am dancing, and I am improving. Is acquiring physical ability the same as learning authentic musicality? I don't think so. Practicing rote repetitions of movement is an LB moment, I think, and innate musicality is pure RB. I am daily thankful for my teacher's emphasis on the emo side of dance, not endless drilling of steps.
Signed, Confused
fascination
Site Moderator
and oddly enough...since I am all about the emo, I am grateful that my instructor emphasizes knowing and understing why and how to do them all well and with precision...so that when adding the rest, it is in addition to something well grounded....and while I wish that wasn't neccessary, I see how very important those repetitions are...in fact, one can also spend time doing them with strictly RB concepts in mind...as part of the larger practice experience though, IMV
katandmouse
Member
Funny. You guys are carrying on about what I said or shouldn't have said. Maybe I should restate it.
Waltzgirl was right, and I said that wrong. It is not 'why' we should dance, it's 'how' we should dance. I can't dictate why anyone else would want to dance, and until someone has actually experienced that magic between the beats and gotten a hit of that addictive drug, it probably is not their reason for dancing.
And, of course, saying it's "how" we should dance will have it's own dissenting views. But this is mine.
But, can we not go there? I'd rather talk about how to get there. This is natural for me. I'd love to know how to help others achieve it, particularly the men I dance with.
katandmouse
Member
Please don't JUST lurk. I like your comments.
This subject came up earlier, so you could scroll back and try to find the comments on that. Some felt it could be taught.
From my experience in trying to help others with this at the piano, what I've found is that at the instrument, the best I could get out of anyone who wasn't musical to begin with was an imitation. I suspect that is why the dynamics are written on sheet music for those who don't have it naturally. I rarely even look at those. I know what they should be without anyone telling me. How do I know that? I don't know other than to say it is a gift or maybe it's the result of my life's experiences, but it is not something I was taught at the piano.
I suspect that acquiring musicality then may have to be done away from the instrument. Musicality is really tapping into the seat of emotion and connecting that with the music. It is NOT learning how to extend a note longer. It is NOT playing or dancing on time. Those are just skills that anyone can learn.
Perhaps those who are musical are more expressive naturally in all aspects of their lives. Maybe there is more of a free-flow of emotion and feelings than other people have. Maybe it would help to do work away from the instrument or dance floor to learn to connect with that energy. Maybe it takes some therapy sessions with a psychologist. I don't know. I think it may be possible, but does anyone really know how? I think they are still debating this, so maybe it serves no purpose to even bring this up. Maybe what this discussion should be is how to you acquire a semblance of musicality? But that doesn't really interest me. It is not 'HOW' we should dance if we can help it.
Warren J. Dew
Forum Master
Yes, it can be taught. The subject deserves its own thread, though.
katandmouse
Member
I can't believe it doesn't have one already. Does it? If not, let's start it. I just had an idea on first steps, and I'm anxious to share.
What I came up with reminded me of an Indie movie I saw many years ago, but dang if I can remember the name. It was about a violinist and her sister (cellist??) whose mother put the girls into dance lessons to improve their musicality on their instruments. Anyone know the name of the movie?
samina
Well-Known Member
for my part, i'd like to hear about what *habits* people are changing on a daily basis, which they believe will or are radically effecting their dancing. or which habits they have changed in the *past* which helped them out tremendously. a quantum external change can only occur when a correlating inner pattern has shifted & become "normal", or when new, radically different physical habits have been installed in one's life & become normalized.
these habits could be the general mental approach one brings to the floor, such as to use the LB/RB relationship more productively. but there are many other habits one can change.
for example, i'm currently on hiatus from lessons & comping, but i am *very* focused on radically changing things such as my diet, the way i train my body every day, how i breathe and the *awareness* i bring to not just my breath but to how i experience sensation in my body through movement throughout the day. i also have a new habit as i go up and down the steps -- i have used the steps for two years now to develop some new dance-related strength or sensitivity, or to improve alignment, and incorporating these little details -- with awareness -- has brought me repeatedly to those wonderful little quantum leaps where my instructor will say, within one minute of taking hold & dancing with me...."what did you do?"
i believe very much in the power of adjusting small things, and adhering to them daily, if one wants to effect a big change.
when i hit the studio, my lessons, and the comp floor again, i do expect to have made perhaps the largest quantum leap in my dancing so far. and it's because of little things i'm doing every day *off* the dance floor...
these habits could be the general mental approach one brings to the floor, such as to use the LB/RB relationship more productively. but there are many other habits one can change.
for example, i'm currently on hiatus from lessons & comping, but i am *very* focused on radically changing things such as my diet, the way i train my body every day, how i breathe and the *awareness* i bring to not just my breath but to how i experience sensation in my body through movement throughout the day. i also have a new habit as i go up and down the steps -- i have used the steps for two years now to develop some new dance-related strength or sensitivity, or to improve alignment, and incorporating these little details -- with awareness -- has brought me repeatedly to those wonderful little quantum leaps where my instructor will say, within one minute of taking hold & dancing with me...."what did you do?"
i believe very much in the power of adjusting small things, and adhering to them daily, if one wants to effect a big change.
when i hit the studio, my lessons, and the comp floor again, i do expect to have made perhaps the largest quantum leap in my dancing so far. and it's because of little things i'm doing every day *off* the dance floor...
elisedance
Active Member
The simplest I think is posture. Its something I work on every time I move in particular my head position, keeping my shoulders down and my back straight. After reading the Ralston book I often think about feeling my whole body and exactly what I am doing with each bit of it. The plan is, as you say, for these to become second nature.
katandmouse
Member
hmmmm. What a coincidence.
I'm doing the same. Called my dance teacher just a couple of hours ago to tell him I'd see him in a couple of months. Is there something in the air that we both caught?
katandmouse
Member
I changed teachers.
I'm not saying one was bad and the other good. I haven't found a teacher yet who hasn't given me something I needed. What I'm saying is sometimes we get stuck and just need to be taught from a different perspective.
I find too that everyone has something they are best at, and most are not best at everything. So if I get stuck with one teacher on one thing, I'll seek out another to fill in, but then stick with the teacher I connect with best.
samina
Well-Known Member
hmmmm. What a coincidence.
I'm doing the same. Called my dance teacher just a couple of hours ago to tell him I'd see him in a couple of months. Is there something in the air that we both caught?
temporary poverty? LOL