Is It Real or Is It Memorex?

This is something that I'm digging up from an earlier/earlier comment of mine and I'm going to largely aim it at the teachers (as there're a few here) - BUT - feel free non-teachers to join in and comment etc. and plus I'm forever reading about "such and such doing it that way" or "such and such doing it this way" etc. etc. And so...this topic.

Teachers: At what point in your student's life (after say, a couple of years) do you encourage them to STOP being a watcher to start becoming a creator (that is making their dance their own - I do it from Day One).
Beans on toast is simple right? No. For my mother makes it different to what I do (better as she's a maniac for seasonings) as does my sister as does my friend and I daresay the lady next door, the man around the block. You learn the (universal) basics and then at what point do you, say, add a tomato, a bit of garlic, maybe some onions, drain off some of the bean juice, swap brown for white, margarine for butter etc. etc. And to finally present that plate of beans and toast as your own creation.

Have mentioned in an earlier thread (plus it continues on from "Ugly Feet"...which is a great title by the way for a book or movie) my dancing was, has been, and is described as "ugly". But it's all good. Why? For there is nobody that I can elsewhere see - dancing like me. And so, my dancing is my mine/own.

defintey when itt comes to musicality. I dont think anyone hears what I hear.so I try to suggest possibilities. I think people tend to have things they like doing so I let them go their own way..and when?

when their technique is good enough...

I am being tought technique gradually and after one year of dancing.
i know the moves and i can combine them (ones that i one) in any order.
but i follow the music.

I did not have any patterns, when i learnt one element i learnt next.
everything was going gradually.

maybe i play with musicality (fasten slower rhythm) or just flow like melody or accentate lyrics.

from very first classes i was told to follow the rhythm music, but gradually i can hear more.

some people need more to feel the music and to be relaxed while dancing.

i noticed that after one year of dancing people relax and start to enjoy.

that one year not need to be tango, some other dance b4 is welcome.

Good topic!

I don't know. DH and I argue this point all the time. He comes from the (classical piano) school of thought that first you must master the rules, and master the technique, in order to earn the privilege of breaking the rules and imposing your own interpretation on what the composer intended.

I've seen interpretation--in the form of basic adornments a woman can do on her own, namely, lapiz or taps while waiting and standing still--taught literally from the first lesson. Pesonally, I'm wary of saying that one must master things as taught before finding your own style. Not that I believe personal style is a valid substituion for good technique, just that I'm uncomfortable with saying that one's own take has no merit until the technique is up to snuff. I'm aware, though, that that can lead down ugly roads and a total disregard for good technique under the guise of "it's my style." Especially since, fundamentally, a lot of style comes from technique (think of the characteristic AT walk, which has at its roots, a particular technique to it), and a lot of technique is the result of function.

*shrug* Perhaps it's a difference of opinion that comes about as a result of differences inherent in the two art forms? I wouldn't know...

As for hearing and intepreting the music on your own...I definitely think that should be encouraged from Day One.


...


...what's beans on toast?

as a comparison: after six months learning saxophone; my music tutor gave me exercises in listening and playing a rhythm back, working with a three note call and response; listeing for jazz or blues scales; pentatonic scales; this freedom to noodle frees one so one starts to listen to what one is playing rather than being focussed on just notes on a page; so I dont have a problem with people appraoching it from different ends; creative and technical;
some people need something much simpler; just to feel what their body is doing when they are dancing; reduce the technical and musical stuff and juat make it movement within oneself. I've seen one or two people make a break through when they gain this self awareness.

Heather2007 said:

Teachers: At what point in your student's life (after say, a couple of years) do you encourage them to STOP being a watcher to start becoming a creator (that is making their dance their own - I do it from Day One).

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When they can do what you taught them to do without thinking nor second guessing themselves. Then you start teaching them to improvise with what you've taught them, and what they know.

Heather, ....and for anyone that have or teach children. You bring up a very important subject, that doesn't just apply to dance...but life in general.

(By the way, just to be clear, what you meant by "making the dance their own"...you meant "creativity" and not ownership, correct?). Both are important but are quite different. Ownership is practicing the routine you've learned,...at home. Ownership is stetching on your own 3 times a day to improve flexibility. Ownership is packing an extra pair of shoes, a medical kit, extra dance clothes in your dance bag. Ownership is going out for an evening of social dancing after a hard day of practice. Ownership is standing in the first row of a group class.
Ownership is asking your instructor questions if something is not clear. I bring this up Heather, because a students ownership is also very important.

Creativity is....using all the resources one has available to them, in a way that wasn't originally intended, for the purpose of expressing something or making something more interesting.

Serious dance schools do not put a great deal of emphasis on a dancers creativity, in the beginning, because they want their dancers to be disciplined and follow their instruction to the letter. This can stiffle a dancer's creativity. However, if you focus on creativity early on...it could distract a dancer from their technical discipline/focus.
It's a slippery slope.

I am currently having to figure out how to get my daughter, whom is a very technical dancer, to be a more creative dancer. God knows, she has an amazing amount of reasouces available to her. (..she also needs to learn ownership LOL).

barrefly said:

(By the way, just to be clear, what you meant by "making the dance their own"...you meant "creativity" and not ownership, correct?). Both are important but are quite different. Ownership is [...snip...]

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I think there can be other definitions of ownership, as well. Not an achievement-based standard which, correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to advocate. But, speaking from personal experience and what I've heard others say, there's a sense of ownership that comes from making the transition from "someone who dances" to "a dancer." There's something about internalizing it, and realizing that it's more than just routine and technique and steps but is something that moves you, some aspect of dancing becoming a part of who you are. A taking responsibility for your shortcomings (deleted the word "failures" there), instead of just hiding behind the "I'm just a beginner" mind-set.

Most of that, to be sure, is just based on my own feelings. I very VERY distinctly remember when I came to "own" my dancing, and made, in my head, the switch from being someone who danced AT to an AT dancer. (There's probably a post about it in here somewhere, but I'm lazy.) Oh, sure, I'd only been at it for two years...but something switched over in me. I don't know how to describe it. It was very powerful. But it was never a sense of sacrifice for the sake of AT; it was a sense of coming into my own with the dance, and finding that it was more than just a hobby for me. At the risk of sounding utterly corny, it had become a part of me...and a very important part, at that.

Peaches said:

Most of that, to be sure, is just based on my own feelings. I very VERY distinctly remember when I came to "own" my dancing, and made, in my head, the switch from being someone who danced AT to an AT dancer. (There's probably a post about it in here somewhere, but I'm lazy.) Oh, sure, I'd only been at it for two years...but something switched over in me. I don't know how to describe it. It was very powerful. But it was never a sense of sacrifice for the sake of AT; it was a sense of coming into my own with the dance, and finding that it was more than just a hobby for me. At the risk of sounding utterly corny, it had become a part of me...and a very important part, at that.

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Peaches:

Allow me to help you---> Enhance your dance... Make it your own


As I, tango is not just a dance, nor a hobby, nor a show. It is a way of life that only true practitioners of AT are privileged to see... Something so hard to explain to outsiders.

Soooo true Peaches,
How could I miss such an important aspect of ownership. Could it be that I am so wrapped up in my daughter's dancing (like many "stage parents")...that I failed to recognize this important fact?
Thankyou for reminding me.

To the OP's question.... from day 1.

Peaches said:

first you must master the rules, and master the technique, in order to earn the privilege of breaking the rules

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:tongue:

barrefly said:

By the way, just to be clear, what you meant by "making the dance their own"...you meant "creativity" and not ownership, correct?)

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Making something one's own and being the owner of something have slightly different meanings. Think: Tarantino taking on the Teletubbies. Now. It could be said no, Teletubbies is not his, but but boy oh boy if he were ever to do a remake would....he....make....it....his....own. :tongue:

Peaches said:

something switched over in me. I don't know how to describe it. It was very powerful. But it was never a sense of sacrifice for the sake of AT; it was a sense of coming into my own with the dance, and finding that it was more than just a hobby for me. At the risk of sounding utterly corny, it had become a part of me...and a very important part, at that.

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I very much can relate to this. The dilemma I'm having at the moment is that my wife and I took this up as a hobby to spend some time together. It's become more than that for me, but not for her (rather strange, as it's often the other way around).

TThat can be rough, although maybe not...

If you are more serious than she is about tango, you may just have to learn to accept what is "enough" for her and enjoy how much progress she has made relative to what she wants to get out of things.

Another way to look at it, is if she were to end up (or had ended up) as serious about it as you, then maybe y'all would have strong differences about what each other wants to get out of tango that might cause problems (who knows?) but as it is, perhaps she is just happy to "go along for the ride".