Switching to on2: Stuck with over-advanced ladies

Hey all,

glad to be back here on df, have been away for a while, travelling, studying, etc, but active again as you can see...of course didn't commit the mortal sin of quitting salsa dancing meanwhile...resulting in this issue

In the Netherlands, the salsa scene is predominantly LA on1, with the exception of the more advanced dancers who are all solely dancing NY on2. I've recently begun starting to make the switch from on1 to on2, taking a basic class, but, of course, practice is the key.

Here, though, is the problem. Whereas when I was an absolute salsa beginner, finding ladies was never a problem, as there were plenty of other lady beginners around, willing to experiment, mess around a bit, and learn through trial and error.

However, given the salsa scene around here, the only ladies to dance with on2 are extremely advanced. There's no way you can possibly get away with doing the most basic stuff of on2 and get away with it without having forever blown your reputation with that lady...in fact, usually u don't even get to that point, as I found out today, these on2 ladies appear to be a rather arrogant bunch and I've been rejected nearly half of the times today by them...a rejection from time to time when asking a lady to dance, sure, that's normal, for whatever reason, but with this amount, it's causing me to get stuck where I am!

First, I can't dance LA high level with these ladies, cuz they'll reject you insisitng on on2

Second, I can't dance on2 because in order to do so I first need some 'low-level' on2 ladies or very eager-to-help advanced on2 ladies. Somehow, neither category appears to exist [in sufficient amounts].

The rather elite and closed off scene of the on2 group doesn't make life easier btw...seems you need to be godlike before you get in, but becoming like that is rather impossible when you're not 'in'

Help!

if you can't get it for free then perhaps you should pay for it?

get a couple of the good on2 dancers (lead and follow if possible) to give you privates

or

join an on2 dance troupe or form a training group. Most on2 dancers I know took this route. when i started I was fortunate enough to find a beginning class and then practice for a whole week at the PR congress

If you take the route of self-training then you probably need to invest in instructional dvds

If you are taking a beginners on2 class, I assume there are followers in the class too? Perhaps you can ask one or two of them to be your practice partner to "experiment, mess around a bit, and learn through trial and error" with?

Also, all the things you already know on1 can be converted to on2. Practise, with or without partner, these moves on2. Your aim here is to get comfortable with the timing. Once you got that, you won't have to stick to basic stuff when you dance with advanced on2 ladies.

Another thing -- have you tried explaining to the on2 followers that you are trying to learn to dance on2? Sometimes advanced followers are more willing to extend their goodwill when they know that's what you are asking for (but don't ask the same girl repeatedly).

One more possibility is to recruit good on1 followers -- there may be some who are interested in learning to dance on2.

sound advice macmoto...
@lockstep: yeah, strange bunch they are, those 'on2 women'...
beginning on2 ladies have some same difficulties as the men, finding partners. ... so they must be out there somewhere! although i must admit it's somewhat easier for them to make the change.
where do you dance, lockstep? west/east/north/south? what parties do you go to?
in my experience, the amount of 'arrogance' varies with the availability of good on2 leads. Try going to parties in the east or south. There's plenty on2 ladies around, that'll jump to any chance to dance on2, be it with an advanced or starting on2 guy. just tell them you're still making the change, and they'll welcome you with open arms.

Thanks for the advice,

yeah, I will try the more humiliating 'please dance with me - Im still learning!!!' apporach, but, of course, as these ladies are usually in high demand I'll mentally prepare myself for rejections...they assume theres plenty of others to dance with I think...

Also been spamming local forums looking for on 'on1->on2 partner'...

Btw, Yola, I tend to go to the larger parties in Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam. I live in Utrecht myself.

Lockstep

if you wanna dance with willing on2 ladies : go to parties in Arnhem, Tilburg, Haarlem or maybe Den Bosch or Nijmegen.
there's plenty of ladies with the basic on2 down, but too little men to practice.

if the lead likes to dance on1 the follow should follow
same with on 2
same with on 3

advanced is advanced on any/all counts.. if u are rythmically challenged on one of these beats.. it dont mean u cant have fun with the other option.. untill u are fine with all to select and play with any given sunday..

its not the the beat u break on .. but what happens on the following beats that the mojo happens..

just owning one beat is excellent .. owning all is fantastic.. but the juice of the dance is another story..

example: they dont like 0n1 for some reason or another.. and i feel like going on1 at the time.. well hey.. i'll make them love it.. not cause of on1 .. but because of ME! .. make sense?.. maybe u can change their mind for them just this time )

Sabor said:

if the lead likes to dance on1 the follow should follow
same with on 2
same with on 3

Click to expand...

"should" and "do" are totally different.

yeah.. for starters one has 6 letters and the other has 2

yola said:

beginning on2 ladies have some same difficulties as the men, finding partners. ... so they must be out there somewhere! although i must admit it's somewhat easier for them to make the change.

Click to expand...

Only problem with this approach is that to dance on2 i think one of the pair has to know it pretty well. I learned by dancing with good on2 leads, not beginner on2 leads. Whenever I tried to dance with beginner on2 leads, we were hopeless; we always slipped back on1. One of the two has to have the rhythm really solidly stuck in his/her head and body. Otherwise it's the blind leading the blind.

I'm sorry to hear about the snobby on2 ladies. I like someone's suggestion that you tell them you're trying to learn. And a class or group will really help, too.

@lockstep: i'm curious: did you have success yet?

MacMoto said:

If you are taking a beginners on2 class, I assume there are followers in the class too? Perhaps you can ask one or two of them to be your practice partner to "experiment, mess around a bit, and learn through trial and error" with?.....

Click to expand...

Lockstep, this will probably work although it's not fool proof. If you could create a buddy system of sorts, meaning if you could get your classmates who are also just learning to come out with you to the venues, then you would get some guaranteed practice in. Just avoid the exclusivity type behavior that other groups seem to have created.

my classmates are pretty hopeless...busy busy busy, none of them really frequent the places all that much

but, ive persevered, and stubbornly been seeking out on2 ladies virtually every single night last two weeks and im bashing my way into it...avoiding too much stepping on the toes

counting goes fine, pretty much converted all my on1 into on2 and now mambofying it a bit...went quicker than expected...time to really get into on2 now

ill be eternally grateful to some of the rarer patient ladies out there though, who really helped me out tremendously

Bummer. I hope you at least find a practice partner soon. Maybe ask your instructor if they know of anyone who is interested in obtaining a partner just to practice?