Signalling in Rueda - help!

I have a friend who attended Cuban Rueda workshops and he taught us some moves. He said the signal si to be given on 7! 8O

For instance, let's take vacilla. Leader steps with left foot to his left on 1 and girl with right foot back (guapea). On 7, the lead moves his left hand towards the center of the circle (so to the right) and then on 1 moves hand back to his left and turns the lady clockwise.

But the same move in Miami Rueda de Casino is different. Our instructor of Miami Rueda said the signal should be on 8 and the girl should tap with the right foot and lift the left arm up (sort of a pose) then turn clockwise on 1.

Now I'm confused! Aren't they supposed to be the same? Or at least similar in signalling? :shock:

I was taught that the signal should be given 8 counts before the move starts. So when the move starts with the right foot, I give the signsl when I'm on my right foot and the next time when I'm on the right foot the move starts. I do cuban rueda in case it matters.

I believe my teacher says on 7:th so one can be prepared for whats next.

/luc

When I say the signal I do not mean the "call" of the caller... just the move itself...

I've been taught the caller should call the move on his left foot (if a guy) and right foot (if a girl)... or more precisely when you are "outside" the circle... So, counting 123 567 (with 1 - left foot for guys), the signal should be given on1. This is what I have been taught, but it's Miami Rueda...

Bu I wans't talking about that... was talking about the signal the leader gives the follower to start the move itself (the same as in Salsa)...

I must tell that in fact there are many different ways of dancing rueda. For example different rhytmics (we are mainly dancing it on 3 but it could as well be danced on 1 as you described). Leading also could be different - for example for me turn in vacilala should take 8 counts but I know many leaders who start leading later and then turn lasts only 4 counts. Some add tap to their basic steps some do not. It depends on country (and even town) you are from. Even such simple figure like 70 could be done on many different ways and I would not say that one is proper and the others are not. Remember that dancing rueda is just for having fun and socialazing unless you are going to be a member of some rueda formation. If your partners feel comfortable with your leading then it's OK.

squirrel said:

I have a friend who attended Cuban Rueda workshops and he taught us some moves. He said the signal si to be given on 7! 8O

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Yes, this is normal for Cuban casino style dancing. As far as I have seen Miami style (when danced/taught well) is very similar in the basics (i.e. leading/timing/basic building blocks from which all moves are developed). Where they differ is more in the turn patterns, some of which are more a cross between NY style and Cuban.

I have learnt some Miami style turns in my Cuban classes but have not attended a specialist Miami school so I would defer to Miami teaching videos or a good miami teacher for reference in this case timing wise.

squirrel said:

For instance, let's take vacilla. Leader steps with left foot to his left on 1 and girl with right foot back (guapea). On 7, the lead moves his left hand towards the center of the circle (so to the right) and then on 1 moves hand back to his left and turns the lady clockwise.

But the same move in Miami Rueda de Casino is different. Our instructor of Miami Rueda said the signal should be on 8 and the girl should tap with the right foot and lift the left arm up (sort of a pose) then turn clockwise on 1.

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Well, Miami style wouldn't be a different style if they didn't do some kind of styling (pose) differently.

Regarding the tap - Are you sure this is not the first step of the turn? In Cuban it is common (and good styling) for the girl to step *on the spot* with her right foot (On 1) when beginning most turns as this enables the follower to more easily step forward into the spiral turn. This is normal Cuban practice, however stepping back slightly is also acceptable. If you step too far back the second step will be on the spot and your turn will be pretty much the same as a New York style dancer otherwise.

squirrel said:

Now I'm confused! Aren't they supposed to be the same? Or at least similar in signalling? :shock:

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There are plenty of Miami style video clips on official Miami school web sites. I would recommend downloading one of these for Vacilala and comparing with what you were taught.

When I say tap I do not mean step... Of course I step in place on 1, prior to turning... a common mistake is to spin instead of just turn...

And I am sure I was told to tap on 8, prior to starting the turn on 1, as the pose I was mentioning would not be possible when the move has already started... it's a styiling which doesn't appear in Cuban, Rueda or not... As far as I know, that is...

squirrel said:

When I say tap I do not mean step... Of course I step in place on 1, prior to turning... a common mistake is to spin instead of just turn...

And I am sure I was told to tap on 8, prior to starting the turn on 1, as the pose I was mentioning would not be possible when the move has already started... it's a styiling which doesn't appear in Cuban, Rueda or not... As far as I know, that is...

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Well, what does it matter then? Perhaps its your teachers personal styling? You seemed to be concerned about all these differences not just the timing (on 8) issue which is the only one that will make a difference to your partner dancing.

Dancers of any style (NY, LA, PR, Cuban, Miami etc) can tap/heel/flick whatever on 4 or 8. Its just another tool in the toolbox like styling, down to personal choice.

In my opinion the role of a good teacher is to teach you basics but also teach you how you can vary all those basics in many different wonderful ways and to be explicit that this way I am teaching you today is not the only way to do this step/move.

It's the job of the student to differentiate between what are fundamental basics which are absolute and where the variation/flexibility comes in. Would be easier if the teachers told us though...

Far too many people believe in the one true god of Salsa dance. He only dances on Sundays, to a mambo, On 2 and doesn't tap.. so as good followers you should follow his path. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here's a clip of the Cuban version of Vacilala in case you're interested (uses Quicktime movie player).

http://salsaville.com/salc/video_clips/vacilala.mov

Thanks... I cannot see it in the office... But I shall when I get home!

squirrel said:

When I say tap I do not mean step... Of course I step in place on 1, prior to turning... a common mistake is to spin instead of just turn...

And I am sure I was told to tap on 8, prior to starting the turn on 1, as the pose I was mentioning would not be possible when the move has already started...

Click to expand...

This seems pretty normal technique for teaching a styling pose.

squirrel said:

it's a styiling which doesn't appear in Cuban, Rueda or not... As far as I know, that is...

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Are you sure? Are you really really sure? I guess that would depend how it's done artistically, not the technicalities.

I've seen good dancers from Cuba do poses before and after turns. If you want to gain some Cuban styling I recommend this video..

http://www.boogalu.com/generic132.html

all the cubans i've met do a tap on 4,8 counts.

It is not exactly a weightless tap, especially for the girls: girls balance their weight on that tap, many times with a pronounced (and sexy) hip movement. The guy moves her to his right and the girl will 'use' this movement (it doesnt feel like a 'signal') to balance her weight in that direction and gain 'momentum' to do a turn in the opposite direction.

From the guy's point of view it really feels like a pendulum: you push (gently) the pendulum to the (guy's) right (around 7th count), stop it (8th), let the pendulum become weightless and when the pendulum is coming down you set it in motion to the left (or more exactly to a clockwise turn, on the 1 count). Check the video that azzey linked.

At least that's the way i see cubans dance (around here), they let the girl fully take advantage of the signal to gain impulse, and i guess that the count for the start of the signal is not as important as the timing and connection at the end....

alvaro said:

all the cubans i've met do a tap on 4,8 counts.

It is not exactly a weightless tap, especially for the girls: girls balance their weight on that tap, many times with a pronounced (and sexy) hip movement. The guy moves her to his right and the girl will 'use' this movement (it doesnt feel like a 'signal') to balance her weight in that direction and gain 'momentum' to do a turn in the opposite direction.

From the guy's point of view it really feels like a pendulum: you push (gently) the pendulum to the (guy's) right (around 7th count), stop it (8th), let the pendulum become weightless and when the pendulum is coming down you set it in motion to the left (or more exactly to a clockwise turn, on the 1 count). Check the video that azzey linked.

At least that's the way i see cubans dance (around here), they let the girl fully take advantage of the signal to gain impulse, and i guess that the count for the start of the signal is not as important as the timing and connection at the end....

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Well said that man.

I think the trouble comes when people who read web sites believe its an "either or situation" - by that I mean either you tap *all* the time or you don't. It's not true that all cubans tap all the time.

For example the Dile Que No has a tap on the 4 because the girl is changing direction. 123 tap 567. No other taps required.

As long as you do the slide on 3 and 7 and for the girls the hip movement and follow the signals it is possible to dance Cuban without tapping, you just have to be more experienced/practiced at this method.

Rueda steps descriptions - English and Español!

Hi Raluca!

Funny finding you here, instead of on the SalsaPower message board! We have extensive Rueda turn descriptions on my old salsa school website (I closed my school in 2001 to go back and get my masters degree!)... www.absolutesalsa.com

The beginning page is in English, Spanish and Italian. The rest is in English and Spanish, and some of the advanced ones are not finished... I just never seem to have the time to sit down and do that when I'm up to my eyeballs in updates on SalsaPower.com ...you know how it is!

Anyway, some of the descriptions also have links to videos... our correspondent in Hamburg, Germany has an extensive collection of videos to explain "Vacila" and other turns!

Recibe un fuerte abrazo salsero,